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New Orleans, in movies and memories
	Topic by: pooja Posted: September 1, 2005 - 8:18 AM PDT Last Reply: October 21, 2005 - 9:32 PM PDT

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author	topic: New Orleans, in movies and memories
pooja	post #1  on September 1, 2005 - 8:18 AM PDT   For dinner the other day one of my housemates made gumbo, and while we were eating it I suddenly felt really sad, realizing the last time I had gumbo was in New Orleans last year, where we were for a convention. Does GreenCine have some kind of disaster plan? I did a quick search and I think at least 6 members listed themselves as living there. I hope they're okay. The footage on the news looks just awful. Many of these streets that are now underwater have appeared in movies over the years... Hopefully they will still use the city for locations for many years to come. As for the other affected areas, I remember Mira Nair's Mississippi Masala had scenes that were shot in Biloxi, which is a beach resort, right? Actually a lot of that film was shot in little towns around Mississippi, I think. I found THIS THREAD which lists a lot of great films that were made in New Orleans. The times I've been to New Orleans, after saying goodbye to my colleagues after hitting the jazz bars, I'd go to Cafe Du Monde for some cafe au lait and beignets... there was a guy with a big telescope near the square, and he'd let you peek at the rings of Saturn. There was another old guy who played music by rubbing his fingers on various sized glass cups and jars. I remember the smell of hay and oats from the carriage mules. I would get a big cafe au lait to go. If you put one of those in the little refrigerator in the hotel room (you have to take out some of the beer and whatnot to make room) you'd have a nice cup of iced coffee to drink in the morning. I remember having a nice afternoon stroll through one of the old cemetaries... I watched little anole lizards slowly change from green to brown against the backdrop of white stone. When I got back I was scolded for going there alone... apparently there have been muggings and assaults on tourists in the maze of tombs and crypts. I DID have a friend with me, but he stayed in the car because he claimed to be sensitive to ghosts and spirits and such, and he was getting really strong vibes from inside the walls. He was asleep when I got back to the car, and jumped when I rapped on the windshield. I saw a homeless woman in there with a wild look in her eyes, washing her hands at a faucet that was sticking out of the ground, but no ghosts (I 'm pretty sure she wasn't a ghost...)
dpowers	post #2  on September 1, 2005 - 10:39 AM PDT   i've been thinking, after all these wars we've fought, we're the ones who finally wiped out one of our cities. it's been coming for years. i've been reading about it, talking about it (because of the chemical cleanup, which is going to be nasty), and yet, who wanted the mississippi delta problem to lead to this? the lesson we learned from the incredible, us-made floods in the early 20th century was "more control" which turns out to have been wrong because we didn't know what we were doing, we were just building more stuff the way we wanted. i'm hopeful that this along with the tsunami will demonstrate that honest preparation and prevention are critical, and to turn our eyes to real reductions in energy use that will alleviate global warming. i want that but i think the prevailing argument, that no consequences are real until they are upon us, is so strong. weirdly i've been there once in 1994, when the city was recovering from a big flood.
IronS	post #3  on September 1, 2005 - 11:13 AM PDT   > On September 1, 2005 - 8:18 AM PDT pooja wrote: > --------------------------------- > I did a quick search and I think at least 6 members listed themselves as living there. I hope they're okay. > --------------------------------- Yeah, I hope you're okay, wherever you are ,ivygirl!
pooja	post #4  on September 1, 2005 - 2:51 PM PDT   I guess we should all be grateful that there isn't a double whammy brewing right now, like the one that hit Florida last year. Still it's hard to believe how unprepared everyone turned out to be for something I've heard they'd done simulations and drills on for years. why weren't there buses to evacuate everyone who didn't have cars? Why aren't they sending cruise ships to serve as temporary evacuation camps? I heard interviews with angry people taking refuge in the Convention Center there... why didn't they get out of town? The guy sounded perfectly healthy to me... I guess it's human nature to underestimate the consequences and believe that you can somehow "ride it out"... Why is there so much looting and violence? I don't remember people doing stuff like that during bad monsoons or earthquakes in Asia...
pooja	post #5  on September 1, 2005 - 3:45 PM PDT   What were they smoking?
pooja	post #6  on September 1, 2005 - 3:48 PM PDT   Imagination falls short.
Battie	post #7  on September 1, 2005 - 8:04 PM PDT   > On September 1, 2005 - 2:51 PM PDT pooja wrote: > --------------------------------- > I guess we should all be grateful that there isn't a double whammy brewing right now, like the one that hit Florida last year. Still it's hard to believe how unprepared everyone turned out to be for something I've heard they'd done simulations and drills on for years. why weren't there buses to evacuate everyone who didn't have cars? Why aren't they sending cruise ships to serve as temporary evacuation camps? I heard interviews with angry people taking refuge in the Convention Center there... why didn't they get out of town? The guy sounded perfectly healthy to me... > > I guess it's human nature to underestimate the consequences and believe that you can somehow "ride it out"... > > Why is there so much looting and violence? I don't remember people doing stuff like that during bad monsoons or earthquakes in Asia... > --------------------------------- The first question...I'm going to come off sounding racist here, but I actually wasn't the one who brought it up. A net friend of mine in Australia asked me, in all seriousness, if only black people lived in New Orleans. I had refused to watch any newscasts (since I see TV news as entertainment, not news), so didn't get it. But I answered her question. People who didn't leave often didn't have the means to leave (and no offense, but blacks happen to be the poorest demographic in the South) or refused to leave for whatever reason. I have noticed, even in Texas, that a lot of people would rather die in their homes in a disaster, than leave and come back to nothing. And Louisiana, supposedly, asked for money from the Federal government to strengthen the coastline. I don't recall whether or not they mentioned why the levees hadn't been better built. Probably some government crap that only made sense to those making the decision. I could ask why Californians live where they live when it's only a matter of time before a really large earthquake brings down every major city... As for the violence and looting. Heck if I know. I personally think those people have completely lost their minds and need to be put down like rabid dogs...but then, I generally have a harsh view of such things. But in the case of Asia's tsunami, it didn't just flood the population centers, it killed off massive amounts of people, wiped out entire towns and cities from the ground up, etc. If there was anything to loot in the first place, there wasn't afterwards. A lot of the people left were probably a LOT more shocked than the folks here are. Physical shock from grief, and just the suddenness of it (they had no days' long warning). You also have to realize that Americans, by and large, do NOT live in communities. In your area, say 2-4 blocks, do you know everyone? Small towns in some areas, and larger towns of old, have individuals that were a community, knew each others' business, etc. Looting, when you are hurting people you don't know, and helping yourself and your family, is quite easy as opposed to the realization that if you loot, you're taking something someone else you know may need more than yourself. And I'm betting someone can make an argument that in certain areas of Asia, Hindiuism probably played a part in keeping people in check. Modernization is a bitch.
dpowers	post #8  on September 1, 2005 - 8:35 PM PDT   looting doesn't surprise me. like a reporter for the new orleans paper wrote on their website a lot of people who decided to ride out the storm woke up with their stuff underwater and suddenly didn't have food, drink, basic materials for their families. people were taking what they needed right next to people who were stealing what they could. frankly i don't think it's right for the cops to be protecting property instead of searching for people, and maybe putting property ahead of people shows a side of new orleans that the bizness folk maybe don't want people outside the city to see.
Battie	post #9  on September 1, 2005 - 8:50 PM PDT   > On September 1, 2005 - 8:35 PM PDT dpowers wrote: > --------------------------------- > looting doesn't surprise me. like a reporter for the new orleans paper wrote on their website a lot of people who decided to ride out the storm woke up with their stuff underwater and suddenly didn't have food, drink, basic materials for their families. people were taking what they needed right next to people who were stealing what they could. > Need is such an arbitrary word. What really happened is that they chose their own "needs" over the combined need of many. This selfish desire had little to do with need. And I'm willing to bet that the people who looted for need...took more than the bare minimum they actually "needed" for survival. If it were true that they believed looting was necessary, they'd have taken groups of individuals to grocery stores and brought back goods to be handed out to those MOST in need. But naturally, survival goes to those most willing to do what's necessary to survive. > frankly i don't think it's right for the cops to be protecting property instead of searching for people, and maybe putting property ahead of people shows a side of new orleans that the bizness folk maybe don't want people outside the city to see. > --------------------------------- Oh, this is normal. And it doesn't have as much to do with money as you think. Police training dictates upholding the law. I'm sure it can be rather frustrating to be unable to do anything to help those who need it (do they have medical skills? Helicopters? Fuel? Water and food?) while standing around watching idiots looting stores with guns and other non-essential items (jewelry, clothes, etc). Plus, even if you say they could be upholding the law at places such as the stadium, how could they? By shooting people? Yelling into a bullhorn? Property is much easier to deal with. What I don't understand is how hundreds, even thousands, of people can be cowed by a few punks with guns. If it's true there are rapes and murders going on in the 'dome, I'd like someone to explain to me how they can sit there and watch. My disgust with human nature increases. Ah...now I'm recalling the true reason I don't watch the news. *sigh* My cynicism pops up every so often, rearing its ugly head. And it's usually in the places where most people become compassionate. Hm. Must say something horrible about me, no?
Battie	post #10  on September 1, 2005 - 9:11 PM PDT   I'm going to have a rare moment of total, disgusting honesty and say I feel...absolutely nothing. This hurricane does not affect me personally and even after seeing images from television, I just feel mildly amused (contempt breeds amusement). On my good days, I would feel really bad. And I actually did feel really bad for tsunami victims, even during my off days. But for these idiots...the excuse that they didn't have the money to get out doesn't really hold up. Buses, paying off someone to take you with them, etc. I really, really doubt it was impossible for them to get out, barring those with medical needs that kept them from leaving. The children...those I feel for. But adults? May they rot. And I do hope every gun-toting punk in New Orleans gets "accidentally" shot by the National Guard. Oh, and I feel inconvienced by this. Gas stations in my area have run out of gas, and my plans for the weekend may be forced to change because of evacuees at Reunion Arena (and probably the surrounding hotels). Why are they being called refugees? I suppose I do feel really bad for the people who left and are going to go back to nothing. No homes, no possessions.
pooja	post #11  on September 1, 2005 - 9:23 PM PDT   I was watching an ABC interview... Diane Sawyer: Reports show people were looting stores for food water, shoes, things they need to survive, can you really blame them? President Bush: We will take a Zero Tolerance stance against lawless behaviour. Or something like that. Lack of leadership? When there's no one to take charge, people who have reason to lack faith in authority or are suspicious of "leaders" take matters into their own hands? I get that the poorest people didn't have cars and couldn't buy bus/train tickets to evacuate, and that these poorest people who have the least access to food/water/etc. were the ones left in the city. I still don't understand why there weren't thousands of buses and cruise ships poised to take those people out of there yesterday or two days ago. Aren't there millions of school buses in this country? I also see this as a test of the much vaunted "homeland security" put in place since 9/11... Does Washington really expect Americans to have confidence in emergency federal response after this? I saw a FEMA guy who was saying until this afternoon they had no idea there were refugees in the convention center, something all the TV sources have been reporting on all day. I'm thinking maybe there's some reluctance to mobilize the 101 Airborne (is the USA forbidden to mobilize the military domestically?) and disaster relief thus falls to the national guard... but aren't all those national guard and reserve resources already deployed overseas pretty much and stretched really thin? What I'm thinking is basically if a dirty bomb goes off in NY or something, people are going to start killing each other to steal cars to escape the city. That's how much confidence the federal and state response to Katrina is inspiring.
Battie	post #12  on September 2, 2005 - 8:03 AM PDT   > On September 1, 2005 - 9:23 PM PDT pooja wrote: > --------------------------------- > I was watching an ABC interview... > > Diane Sawyer: Reports show people were looting stores for food water, shoes, things they need to survive, can you really blame them? > > President Bush: We will take a Zero Tolerance stance against lawless behaviour. > His assumption is probably that ANY lawless behavior will encourage other kinds. "Okay, so this guy is stealing food and water. I'll go break into Tiffany's." > Or something like that. Lack of leadership? When there's no one to take charge, people who have reason to lack faith in authority or are suspicious of "leaders" take matters into their own hands? > True. But when there are no leaders to take faith in, one should look for leaders from the community, or just stand up themselves. I feel like Americans have been taught to rely so much on specific people that despite our individualism, we'll run around like chickens with our heads cut off when that leadership fails us for some reason. We, as a nation, have a tendency to excuse our bad actions because of bad situations. We over praise the stupidest things...survival, helping someone when you have the means, etc. I can not honestly remember the last time I heard of a person, or small group of people, who banded together and exerted influence on a larger group to help survive. Instead, leaders only seem to emerge when they want to take advantage of a situation...as these gangs demonstrate rather well. > I get that the poorest people didn't have cars and couldn't buy bus/train tickets to evacuate, and that these poorest people who have the least access to food/water/etc. were the ones left in the city. I still don't understand why there weren't thousands of buses and cruise ships poised to take those people out of there yesterday or two days ago. Aren't there millions of school buses in this country? > Personally, I really, REALLY don't think these people couldn't find a way out. I think they WANTED to stay. Like I said, especially in the South, there's often people who consider staying in their home, even if it means possible death, a better choice than leaving and returning homeless. And, personally, I'm inclined to believe that there was a certain level of pure stubborness and stupidity at play. > I also see this as a test of the much vaunted "homeland security" put in place since 9/11... Does Washington really expect Americans to have confidence in emergency federal response after this? I saw a FEMA guy who was saying until this afternoon they had no idea there were refugees in the convention center, something all the TV sources have been reporting on all day. I'm thinking maybe there's some reluctance to mobilize the 101 Airborne (is the USA forbidden to mobilize the military domestically?) and disaster relief thus falls to the national guard... but aren't all those national guard and reserve resources already deployed overseas pretty much and stretched really thin? > Homeland Security was a freakin' crock to begin with. And the government has issues with FORCING people to leave. We'd have to give them permission first...but people get scared that such force would be misused, and worse, what to do when a person seriously resists. As for the National Guard, yes, many of them are deployed in foreign countries. I have a buddy from the NG in Iraq right now. (Filling out a Customs form sucks.) > What I'm thinking is basically if a dirty bomb goes off in NY or something, people are going to start killing each other to steal cars to escape the city. That's how much confidence the federal and state response to Katrina is inspiring. > --------------------------------- That would've happened REGARDLESS of people's confidence in state and federal response. Human nature.
dpowers	post #13  on September 2, 2005 - 8:09 AM PDT   my evil thought of the day, inspired by comments from a friend, is that preparedness, evacuation, emergency assistance: this is a domestic disaster, after we spent gajillion dollar-hours supposedly making ourselves safer from domestic disasters, and it's festering, instead of getting treated. (1) did new york got help faster because the business world needed it to? (2) why the hell wasn't there a better plan? have we been spending all the homeland security money bulletproofing wyoming cattle? (3) iraq no longer looks anything like an inevitable civil dispute. the lack of a plan in iraq no longer looks like a bush problem. ignoring the signs before 9/11. aftermath in afghanistan. aftermath in iraq. florida in the 2000 election. ohio in the 2004 election. now: new orleans. what it looks like, to me, is that we have no dignity. we have no real pride in ourselves, or our institutions. we don't care if we do the job right. only if we did it for the right reason.
dpowers	post #14  on September 2, 2005 - 10:10 AM PDT   also to point this out, in the boston globe, as good as i've seen it said. the real looters are walking away with billions of dollars from every gas pump in the country. "Zero tolerance is meaningless when the White House lets the biggest looters of Hurricane Katrina walk off with billions of dollars. ... We are not referring to the people you currently see in endless footage, crashing through storefronts and wading through chest-high water with clothes, food, and pharmaceuticals ... "In the midst of [public] charity, big oil looted the nation. The pumps instantly shot past $3 a gallon, with $4 a gallon well in sight. "In a thinly disguised attempt to act as if it cared about the people wading in the water, Chevron has pledged $5 million to relief efforts. ExxonMobil and Shell have pledged $2 million apiece. British Petroleum and Citgo have pledged $1 million each. "This is nothing next to their wealth. Of the world's seven most profitable corporations, four are ExxonMobil, Royal Dutch Shell, BP, and Chevron. ... The combined market value of ExxonMobil, BP, Royal Dutch Shell, and Chevron is nearly $1 trillion. [...] "Stay fixated, if you wish, on the thieves and desperate families who are so much easier to catch on camera than comptrollers electronically stealing your cash. It is not pleasant to see anyone loot a store. But ExxonMobil and big oil are looting the nation, and no one declaring martial law on them."
pooja	post #15  on September 2, 2005 - 1:41 PM PDT   My housemate pointed out that after the big earthquake in Japan in 1995, more than 5000 dead, Yakuza gangsters organized themselves and handed out water and relief supplies to the refugees. I'm sure it's really difficult to prepare for a natural disaster of almost unimaginable proportions, but shouldn't a rich, well-educated country like the USA be better prepared? I heard an interview with a college professor who's been urging the fast deployment and construction of "tent cities" to house the hurricane victims. Apparently the FEMA reaction was, "Americans don't live in TENTS!" My guess now is that Americans feel so invulnerable that their concept of "preparedness" falls way short of reality. In a way I can understand your amusement, Battie... in terms of lives lost this is nothing compared to last year's tsunami, or even the run-of-the-mill monsoon or earthquake that hits countries like India or Iraq, or a drought/famine in an African country. Americans are more interested in tallying the billions of dollars this disaster is going to cost, not tallying the lost and ruined lives of the poor, colored folk. Zero tolerance shoot to kill is an expedient way to deal with those nasty unwanted "survivors" right? Just rescue enough of them to make it look good on the evening news. Oh, the senate just found a way to give another billion dollars to the Pentagon... good for them. I think I'll watch Koyaanisqatsi tonight...
pooja	post #16  on September 2, 2005 - 1:50 PM PDT   > On September 2, 2005 - 10:10 AM PDT dpowers wrote: > --------------------------------- > also to point this out, in the boston globe, as good as i've seen it said. the real looters are walking away with billions of dollars from every gas pump in the country. Yes, I noticed that if you listen to the news carefully, about 3 months after the oil companies claim they "HAD NO CHOICE" but to raise gas prices again because of tight supplies or whatever, they go on the business section proudly and happily proclaiming to their shareholders and wall street that they enjoyed record profits again last quarter. Where does capitalism end and con artistry begin? They don't even have to try and hide it or explain it.... no one in the general public seems interested in calling them on it...I guess they have friends in high places in Washington...
Battie	post #17  on September 2, 2005 - 2:45 PM PDT   > On September 2, 2005 - 1:50 PM PDT pooja wrote: > --------------------------------- > > On September 2, 2005 - 10:10 AM PDT dpowers wrote: > > --------------------------------- > > also to point this out, in the boston globe, as good as i've seen it said. the real looters are walking away with billions of dollars from every gas pump in the country. > > Yes, I noticed that if you listen to the news carefully, about 3 months after the oil companies claim they "HAD NO CHOICE" but to raise gas prices again because of tight supplies or whatever, they go on the business section proudly and happily proclaiming to their shareholders and wall street that they enjoyed record profits again last quarter. Where does capitalism end and con artistry begin? They don't even have to try and hide it or explain it.... no one in the general public seems interested in calling them on it...I guess they have friends in high places in Washington... > --------------------------------- I've mentioned my suspicion about current gas prices, several events that have been controlled by the administration in charge, and the ties the current administration has to oil business. My neighbor likes to go off on huge rants about King Ranch not pumping, etc. Claims they're driving up the price deliberately. And while I'm inclined to believe that SOME of the price would've gone up, regardless, I'm also inclined to believe that there's something going on because my gas, two years ago, was only 98 cents per gallon. In a two year period, the market shouldn't have changed SO MUCH as to more than DOUBLE the price.
Battie	post #18  on September 2, 2005 - 3:01 PM PDT   > On September 2, 2005 - 1:41 PM PDT pooja wrote: > --------------------------------- > My housemate pointed out that after the big earthquake in Japan in 1995, more than 5000 dead, Yakuza gangsters organized themselves and handed out water and relief supplies to the refugees. I'm sure it's really difficult to prepare for a natural disaster of almost unimaginable proportions, but shouldn't a rich, well-educated country like the USA be better prepared? > Well-educated? You're kidding, right? And worse, it's the deep South. We have SERIOUS education issues here. > I heard an interview with a college professor who's been urging the fast deployment and construction of "tent cities" to house the hurricane victims. Apparently the FEMA reaction was, "Americans don't live in TENTS!" > Sounds about right. Then again, since you mentioned "poor, colored folk" perhaps the case could also be made that FEMA is so afraid of offending our many "concerned" organizations that they'd rather attempt bussing out the survivors than putting them in tents. > My guess now is that Americans feel so invulnerable that their concept of "preparedness" falls way short of reality. In a way I can understand your amusement, Battie... in terms of lives lost this is nothing compared to last year's tsunami, or even the run-of-the-mill monsoon or earthquake that hits countries like India or Iraq, or a drought/famine in an African country. > My amusement was in that they brought it on themselves in the first place. And the fact that, rather than banding together (such as your Yakuza gang members) to help everyone, they instead grab guns and begin looting, raping, and murdering. Such an American action. The media doesn't help. NYC folks were praised to hell and back over 9/11...but to be honest, most people just stood around watching. Like I said before, I can't recall the last time people took action to help their community and city hold together until everything could be sorted out. > Americans are more interested in tallying the billions of dollars this disaster is going to cost, not tallying the lost and ruined lives of the poor, colored folk. Zero tolerance shoot to kill is an expedient way to deal with those nasty unwanted "survivors" right? Just rescue enough of them to make it look good on the evening news. Oh, the senate just found a way to give another billion dollars to the Pentagon... good for them. I think I'll watch Koyaanisqatsi tonight... > *shrug* Zero tolerance sounds fine to me. If you aren't looting, you won't be shot. Indeed, they did. Be proud. One day, we'll all have chips planted under our skin to track our movements and actions. We will have crime no more! Well, discounting anything the rich and influential do.
woozy	post #19  on September 2, 2005 - 3:33 PM PDT   > > Well-educated? You're kidding, right? And worse, it's the deep South. We have SERIOUS education issues here. > I think you know the answer to this. In pure numbers and technical definitions, America is "well-educated" as that is understood to go along with wealth, properity, and all our good stuff. "Well-educated" means money is spent on education and education is available to all. That we ignore our education, get nothing out of it, have no value for it, and short-change and short sight it, is secondary.
Bowwow	post #20  on September 2, 2005 - 7:53 PM PDT   > On September 2, 2005 - 3:33 PM PDT woozy wrote: > --------------------------------- > > > > > I think you know the answer to this. In pure numbers and technical definitions, America is "well-educated" as that is understood to go along with wealth, properity, and all our good stuff. "Well-educated" means money is spent on education and education is available to all. That we ignore our education, get nothing out of it, have no value for it, and short-change and short sight it, is secondary. > --------------------------------- Oh dont even get me started about the state of education in this country. This business in New Orleans is rather disturbing to me. Can our social fabric really break down so easily?

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