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74

Berkeley in the Sixties
Topic by: underdog
Posted: January 15, 2003 - 3:49 PM PST
Last Reply: January 18, 2003 - 12:39 PM PST

page  1  2      prev | next
author topic: Berkeley in the Sixties
underdog
post #1  on January 15, 2003 - 3:49 PM PST  
I thought if this discussion was to continue we should try it with a squid-free title. (hee)

> On January 15, 2003 - 2:34 PM PST dwhudson wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> When I saw the subject line for this topic, I thought I was going to see a gaggle of GCers talking about hentai.
>
> No, seriously, I love this piece. There are several bits of the conversation between Craig and Mark Kitchell that soar, but I get especially excited when MK talks about "relevance". His decision was so right, so very, very smart. It makes Berkeley in the Sixties relevant always, not just for the moment he undoubtedly had the urge to speak directly to. As we scramble to figure out a way how to react to or maybe even contribute to a cutting off of the seemingly inevitable ten years on, another viewing of his film can't hurt. Not at all.
> ---------------------------------


I was really happy he said that -- it just sort of came up. As a sometime doc filmmaker myself I had *never* thought about the relevance issue in those terms before so it was important to hear about it. It's very important. In the film, its interesting to hear the former activists cop to the fact that when the activism turned to rioting, some of the public support was lost. As the review of the DVD on Video Savant/DVD Talk says -- more effective activism is usually via the electoral process and not by overturning cars... But there is a time and a place for getting in your face. (Sorry for rhyming.)

At any rate, I wish I had asked Mark Kitchell about the upcoming documentary on the Weather Underground -- an offshoot of the student protest movement that turned to terrorism. It's a film by Sam Green that I saw a premiere screening of a few months ago. Would make a great companion piece to Berkeley. It also seems to have good perspective, though perhaps not as mature a sense of "relevance." Does anyone know about this film? I wonder if it will come to PBS.



Thanks...
Eoliano
post #2  on January 15, 2003 - 5:55 PM PST  
Okay, senza calamari.

It was a real mess back then. The SDS had been trying to make their presence felt in a positive way, but they were undermined by the Weather Underground among others, and once the Vietnam War was underway in earnest, things became hellaciously out of control. At which point there was little anyone could possibly do to realign the alliances with black groups, the liberal press and other student organizations that were struggling to make their voices heard and make a positive impression. Protesting against Big Brother and the corporate megaliths, the Vietnam War, you name it, we wanted them to listen and to get through to them, but they werent going to put up with violence on any level. The debacles of the Sixties were many and carried over well into the Seventies, and now look where we are. We lost the war. We lost our impetus to rise up, and have become complacent.

The hatred was vicious. You could feel it, it was palpable, and if you were in any of the peace or freedom marches or protests, it came at you with a vengeance. Ordinary people became like wild beasts spewing obscenities and tauntingly testing your steadfastness to remain cool. The divisions went deep, into our homes. It divided children and their parents, and brother against brother, friend against friend.

I remember the McCarthy era, though not as succinctly as the Sixties. But what I do recall is that it was as if the nation were shrouded in darkness, brooding, and buried in fear and propagandistic indoctrination of the Right.

I hope that we dont have to live through such a period again.

So, point taken, Berkeley in the Sixties is relevant, always, indeed.
Eoliano
post #3  on January 15, 2003 - 6:02 PM PST  
> Okay, senza calamari.

These()are apostrophes and not squids!
I hate when that happens!
dpowers
post #4  on January 15, 2003 - 8:47 PM PST  
squid-free activism. it's better than ever.

> In the film, its interesting to hear the former activists cop to the fact that when the activism turned to rioting, some of the public support was lost. <

okaaaaay...

> As the review of the DVD on Video Savant/DVD Talk says -- more effective activism is usually via the electoral process and not by overturning cars... But there is a time and a place for getting in your face. <

there have been so many changes in this country, in this world, that came to pass because people who were angry with how things were being done refused to do them, refused to participate in systems that benefitted from them, campaigned against them.

i haven't seen the film but these people, student activists, are not the people to talk to if you want to find out why activism works. in the fifties, in the era of mccarthy, in the early sixties, there was enormous black activism in the united states and it did force changes, as shallow as some of those gains feel now.

that DVDtalk review. "where are their candidates," my ass. civil rights activists were fighting for the right to vote without obstruction, for the right to seen as people under the law. black candidates in the fifties? what kind of jackass would even try to suggest that as a solution. can barely make it happen now.

the choice is not between getting-out-the-vote and wrecking property. god please don't tell me that's a conclusion you can take away from this documentary.

stuffing envelopes. keeping everybody informed, fed, and in good spirits. working in the system. getting people elected that will work on making those changes. you can't do without those things. but it comes later that they work alone and "later" is really hard to locate.

sometimes control of the issue is on the other side of the world from any election that can be won. and if there's a meeting next week that will bind you to an agreement permanently handing over the reigns of your life to someone who does not respect you and does not want you to even be happy, then you have to get out in public and stay put and make yourself heard until somebody's courage returns and they stand up in their forum for your rights.

as far as doing it just through your person in office, crazy people like paul wellstone are not common in office. as for the rest of them, bob marley said it, "never let a politician grant you a favor. they will try to own you forever."

twitch. twitch. okay i'm done.

AC, woosh, can you put a place and time on some of those experiences, that would be very interesting!
underdog
post #5  on January 15, 2003 - 11:34 PM PST  
> On January 15, 2003 - 8:47 PM PST DPOWERS wrote:
> ---------------------------------
All good points -- I think my comments were poorly phrased and it sounded like I was completely agreeing with that thought (as pointed out in the DVD talk review). I just thought it was Interesting, didn't think it was all true. I do think the point is important though -- and yes, you should see the film! It doesn't make it seem as if it was all for naught. And there is disagreement among the interviewees on this, too. But there is a general sense that when things started moving in a more "terroristic" direction, some public support was lost or there was a lack of agreement on the direction after a certain point and thus the rate of progress made was severely undermined. So abso-friggin-lutely, there's a place for violence, for in your face activism, for agression -- look at the civil rights movement, and the Vietnam war protests -- holding candles and praying only gets you so far.

At any rate, I highly recommend watching the film when you have a chance.

And if the Weather Underground film ever gets released, see that too.

Now then, as an addendum to the above, when we talk about what... relevance (sorry!) this has to today's war protests... well of course, first we don't have the perspective on it yet because we don't know what's going to happen, so we can't say whether protesting is doing anything (although I do notice GW's approval rating going down quite a bit in the last month). But IMHO it seems a combination of methods is having some effect, at least -- there are the protest marches and the occasional eruption (certainly mild compared to the 60s but worth noting) -- and then there are the more stealth methods of activism, of spreading the word. No, not just writing to your congressman, but grassroots organizations like (CHEAP PLUG ALERT!) MoveOn.org, that are brilliantly using the internet to get the word out, to get people active, making phone calls, writing letters to the editor, etc. To not take it lying down. This is an example of the "new activism" as we're in a new century now.

So there's still The Streets (see the WTO protests in Seattle for another example), and then there's also "the streets."

This all goes back to Mark K's point about having some perspective on a historical movement before you can really show the world what it meant -- that means both its successes and its failures. We learn from both. So, like eoliano said, it will then, despite its efforts to not be, always be relevant. And now, especially so.

Btw, we'll be getting a few more copies of the doc if anyone else wants to see it and is "short waited."

Thanks guys! Very cool discussion here.

C/U
dwhudson
post #6  on January 16, 2003 - 1:33 AM PST  
Eoliano, I'd like to second DP's call for more elaboration on your experiences if you get a chance. Some of what you've already said reminds me of book I thought I'd mention in passing: Todd Gitlin's The Sixties: Years of Hope, Days of Rage. It's one of the most emotionally engaging histories of any period I've ever read. In recent years, Gitlin, once a president of the SDS, may have, in the words of Bob McChesney, "made his peace with the status quo," but in this book, he's alive and kicking.

Craig, check this out: The Weather Underground will be showing at Sundance. And here's more on the film from "Greg's Previews".

Another note in passing: the whole question of the use of violence was also hotly debated in other parts of the world, of course. It's an issue that's reemerged here in Germany in the last year after the daughter of Ulrike Meinhof (one of the co-founders of the Red Army Faction) dug up photos of a young Joschka Fischer beating the living daylights out of a cop on the streets of Frankfurt back in the day. Why would that raise a storm in the media? Fischer is currently Germany's foreign minister. As it turns out, the cop, who happens to be named Marx (no, really), turned up as well to publicly forgive Fischer.

But that little media event has stirred a lot of thought and discussion about what we're talking about here: How "successful" was the movement? In Germany, there's a whole generation that is called simply "die 68er". Clinton, Tony Blair and German chancellor Gerhard Schröder are said to be representative of what that generation has become (note how no one ever thinks of Bush in this context).

Some say they've helped make much of the "liberal agenda" a reality. They point to George McGovern's campaign platform, for example, and say, Look how much of it seems so mainstream today. Others, like Bernhard Schlink (author of The Reader, a profound novel all about moral responsibility), argue that they've failed, sold out in the name of realpolitik or some now faded "third way" (and on a less political and more personal level, think of the "Bobo"s). Thoughts? Or can the question really be framed in such black and white terms?
underdog
post #7  on January 16, 2003 - 9:39 AM PST  
David, Thanks!
I can only muster up a quick response here, on two things:

> On January 16, 2003 - 1:33 AM PST dwhudson wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Eoliano, I'd like to second DP's call for more elaboration on your experiences if you get a chance. Some of what you've already said reminds me of book I thought I'd mention in passing: Todd Gitlin's The Sixties: Years of Hope, Days of Rage. It's one of the

What's really funny is, that at the Weather Underground screening I attended (at the Castro theater in SF), anytime Todd Gitlin appeared on screen some people would boo him! I had no idea what they were booing about until someone yelled, "Sell out!" or something like that. It was very San Francisco, cracked me up. I'd only read some of his media studies so I didn't know anyything about the other stuff. I guess he was chosen as the "critical voice" of the WU in that film, and it was the *way* he was critical that ruffled some feathers. The director Sam Green said he didn't agree with everything Gitlin said or even like him very much, but that it was important to add that voice to the interviews.

> Craig, check this out: The Weather Underground will be showing at Sundance. And here's more on the film from "Greg's Previews".
>

And very cool! Thanks for the tips and links. I am excited for them that they are at Sundance. Maybe at least a PBS deal will come out of it.

til later,
C/U
Eoliano
post #8  on January 16, 2003 - 3:01 PM PST  
>>dwhudson wrote:
> Eoliano, I'd like to second DP's call for more elaboration on your experiences if you get a chance.

I'm not sure where DP calls for more elaboration from me, but since you ask - for what it's worth. Getting an emotional response from me is easy, you just have to hit the right button and out comes an emotional tirade. Seriously, though, I'll be calmly give some personal perspectives of that time.

I mentioned the McCarthy era because it was the first time that I became aware of politics, or whatever I thought it was; heck, I was just a kid. McCarthyism had to have been one of the most evil and vile anomalies of politics, and at the time, it permeated our lives. We heard about it in our parent's conversations, in the news, at school, and especially on television where it glared at us. Anti-Communism, HUAC and McCarthyism created one helluva a triad of fear. McCarthyism was in the streets too and anti-communism was a major campaign issue. There were the Rosenbergs, the Hollywood Blacklists, vicious attacks, rumors and lies hurled at Democratic candidates like Adlai Stevenson. Political candidates and supporters blared their rhetoric over loudspeakers throughout neighborhoods. I could hear it from my bedroom while I was trying to go to sleep. It was disturbing. As if it wasn't bad enough to be terrified at school with endless fire drills and absurd duck and cover routines, instilling fear of the bomb, and god knows what else. I remember all this very clearly. I even remember TV programs like I Led Three Lives.

Then, in the Sixties, we finally came out of that miserable but economically buoyant period, entered the Kennedy years, and got through the Cuban Missile crisis. Then the assassination of Jack Kennedy curdled our hopes for those good times we expected to happen in spite of the Cold War. Then the Vietnam War began in earnest, during which time we lived through the assassinations of Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy and Malcolm X, and that really put a lot of grief on the table. It wasn't easy to come out of all that, losing your leaders, the people who seemed to matter to you, and the people who you looked to for guidance. There were people who were sane voices against the struggle for civil rights, the Vietnam War, and we lost them. So coming out of all that, as a believer in keeping the faith, in wanting to do the right thing, it took the wind out of our sails, it left us beleaguered, and ultimately, some of us felt defeated. I think that was their point, that's what they wanted, whoever they were. Oh sure, then there was the counter-culture, hippies, yippies, Ken Kesey and all that groovy stuff. Some of it was a lot of fun and some of it, in retrospect, was hysterically laughable too.

Anyhow, my involvement with the protest movement wasn't very active. It was peripheral. I was just an ordinary person caught up in extraordinary times. In the early Sixties I was a student, and by 1964, a prime candidate for the draft - but I wasn't going to go to war. I sat on the infamous group W bench at the draft induction center on Whitehall Street - Arlo Guthrie didn't make that up, it really existed - and wrangled my way out of the draft, left for England and stayed there until well after I was free and clear of the draft. Had it worked out, I would've stayed over there. Before I left, I attended a few protest rallies and freedom marches, but it hadn't become ugly yet.

While in Swinging London, I saw an anti-war march (remember Bertrand Russell?), but those were like cakewalks in comparison to what was happening in the States. After I came back, I marched on the UN with Dr. Spock and Martin Luther King. I remember roving gangs of boy scouts and even cub scouts, egged on by their leaders and they heckled the marchers like Hitlerjungen, calling us faggots and nigger lovers. Luckily, they stayed behind the barricades and the police kept them in check. There were normal folks too, who joined in the badgering. It was still a good feeling to have been there, to have been a part of that, and King's was a great speaker, and he made it seem all the more worthwhile. It might have been the first time he called the Vietnam War a racist war.

One day while running errands around Union Square, there was a sit-down strike by potential draftees in progress and they burned their draft cards. The Tactical Patrol Force flanked the protesters. Traffic backed up for several blocks in all directions. There were men on rooftops with walkie-talkies, and men with cameras taking photos of the crowd through telephoto lenses. The police ordered the hot dog venders away from the site just in case someone might grab their soda bottles to throw at the police. Then suddenly, someone threw something and all hell broke loose, and the Tactical Patrol Force moved in on the demonstrators, beat them and dragged them away. Then the police began breaking up the crowd, who for the most part consisted of innocent bystanders and mid-day shoppers. To avoid a potential mêlée we ran like hell, people were falling, and things were flying. To add a note of irony to this story, Mayor Lindsay was making an anti-war speech in another part of town.

Those were not entirely happy times, though we made the best of them. In 1969 there was Woodstock, and then in 1970, Kent State! By the summer of 1970, I had had enough and left the city for Pennsylvania where I rented a farmhouse with some friends. By 1972 I had moved to San Francisco and tried to live a relatively normal existence.

I've lived (almost) happily ever after.
dwhudson
post #9  on January 17, 2003 - 9:33 AM PST  
Thanks, Eoliano! Since I was born in '59, my memories of most of these events are those of a child. I remember RFK on TV giving a news conference; and I remember watching train tracks for hours after he was assassinated. I remember a lot of TV images of 1968. LBJ declaring that he wouldn't run again was a big night in our house because we were Texans but not in Texas at the time.

But mostly, because I was a kid, my 60s-related experiences were more style than substance. Buying my first record, a single (The Beatles's A Hard Day's Night/I Should Have Known Better), the constant battle for every eighth of an inch of hair, hoping it'd touch my collar someday, and being told by someone at school that the hand-made peace symbol medallion I wore on a chain around my neck was Satanic because it was actually a cross turned upside down and with its arms broken. First dabblings in the culture wars, I guess.

At any rate, many thanks again.
Eoliano
post #10  on January 17, 2003 - 9:48 AM PST  
It's been a while since I watched the film, but I thought Berkeley in the Sixties to be a very moving documentary.

That was a time, indeed, and really, a good time. There were positive gains made, and even though there's been a lot of sidestepping and backtracking on many of the pertinent issues, we at least ca look back and agree that it was worth it.

Yeah, there was great music too - the Beatles, the Stones, Cream, The Dead, Traffic, The Animals and on and on&




Eoliano
post #11  on January 17, 2003 - 10:37 AM PST  
My pleasure, David. You are welcome.

Eoliano
post #12  on January 17, 2003 - 5:13 PM PST  
And thanks to underdog for the excellent interview with Mark Kitchell !
dpowers
post #13  on January 17, 2003 - 5:42 PM PST  
everybody: medium cool, another document of the time. a friend who was in chicago, in the park, said the cops had helicopters over the park to keep the tear gas from floating away. god is in the details.

underdog8: no i get that you don't go with that point of view. it's just that "new activism" is somewhat a recreation in the white world of networks built in the past by others, under the publicity line, to support public actions.

[op-ed mode]

"activist" is not important. that person is the end of the line for the activity. standing alongside many, the activist is powerful. alone, the activist is weak. anybody calls themself an activist might be the death of that idea, walking on two legs.

the critical person, no, the critical role, because everybody needs to do it, is "organizer." this is the person who makes it possible for the other things to happen. this is the person who listens, who reminds everyone of the positive options, who encourages them toward effective action.

organizers got rosa parks ready for her moment in the spotlight, and everybody else ready for the next phase of the boycott plan. organizers got people to seattle, trained them in non-violent resistance, and encouraged them to sing and put on shows for each other and for onlookers. organizers called me on the phone yesterday to remind me about the big march in san francisco tomorrow.

if everybody is an organizer, encouraging and supporting the next person, then nobody is left at the end of the chain, twisting. it sounds like a pyramid scheme but it's really a circle, and if the circle is well made, then the wind doesn't blow as hard, and it isn't as cold.

[/op-ed mode]

i like moveon.

dwhudson: i recently got to see chris marker's a grin without a cat, the new version. (he thought '67 was the watershed year, and '68 the fallout.) anyway it was shocking to see how much i didn't know about 68 in europe.

i don't think it's enough to look at campus and street actions at that point to figure out whether it was successful. i'm starting to think that we need to look at campus "activism" over the entire campus, assuming that the people that are quiet there are forming their own opinions, and that the people that are yelling are probably not going to have a big influence over the future.

masochistically i could say, look at what happened in 68. lots of lefties yelling, trying to throw themselves in front of the tractors, getting mad at each other, getting plowed under by an effective, reactionary public. now look at now. lots of lefties yelling. trying to throw themselves in front of the tractors. getting mad at each other....

if we want to have any say in the future, whether we are left or right, then we have to grab the buck back from the government and make it stop at us again, us as in person, persons, people, peoples. the right is doing that. the left (out) can't quite manage it somehow.

eoliano: what's the "group W bench." and if you were in the village, was gay politics starting to heat up, visibly.
dpowers
post #14  on January 17, 2003 - 5:49 PM PST  
my first draft of the section to craig died by closed window. web browsers are not designed for word processing.

activists can be organizers. organizers can be activists. but activists who are not willing or not able to organize are just deadly. don't just act. always organize. always leave something behind that people can continue to do for themselves.

i think that does it....
Eoliano
post #15  on January 17, 2003 - 6:37 PM PST  
>> eoliano: what's the "group W bench." and if you were in the village, was gay politics starting to heat up, visibly.

See or listen to Arlo Guthrie's Alice's Restaurant. He used to be a regular guest on WBAI in New York, a sister station of KPFK and KPFA. All kinds of radical music and literary types seemed to just stop into the radio station - William Burroughs, Allan Ginsberg, Guthrie et al.
When I was becoming a HIPSTER and still living at home, my little radio kept me company in my room and that station along with WWRL out of Harlem, and the lone alternative rock station of the time were the only ones worth listening to. But WBAI was cooler than cool. Gideon Bachmann's Film Art radio program was the best!

The group W bench was in the psych area o the U.S. Army Draft Induction Center on Whitehall Street in Manhattan.

Here's an with Arlo.

Here's the
lyrics to Alice's Restaurant.

As far as gay politics were concerned, there really wasn't much. If there were, it was mostly very much underground and kept quiet. However, there were a couple of visibly active areas in the Village like Greenwich Street and Christopher Street. These were the primary hangouts. The former had the rough trade and the latter a more genteel crowd. On weekends, Christopher Street raved, but then so did the entire neighborhood.

I had an apartment on West 4th Street for a while just across from where Bob Dylan was supposed to have had an apartment (wow). One time, late at night, Shel Silverstein was raving and completely out of his head in front of O. Henry's Restaurant; maybe he was developing a new children's story for you.

I later moved to an apartment at the corner Charles Street and Greenwich so that I could be closer to school. It was bigger and cheaper, but the only drawback was that is was across the street from the 10th Precinct. Oh yeah, it was a five-flight walk up as well.

Eoliano
post #16  on January 17, 2003 - 6:52 PM PST  
Corrction:

> Here's an
Eoliano
post #17  on January 17, 2003 - 6:52 PM PST  
Correction:

Here's an interview with Arlo.

Here's the lyrics to Alice's Restaurant.

I bolloxed that first try. Sorry. Hmm. Second try too.
dpowers
post #18  on January 17, 2003 - 7:09 PM PST  
> WBAI in New York, a sister station of KPFK and KPFA. <

i could get WBAI on my radio, in connecticut, the signal was coming straight along the water, maybe. (oh i think i just admitted to growing up in preppy central. you'll just have to take my word on it, i was a freak.)

> All kinds of radical music and literary types seemed to just stop into the radio station ... my little radio kept me company in my room and that station along with WWRL out of Harlem, and the lone alternative rock station of the time were the only ones worth listening to. But WBAI was cooler than cool. <

[starving for poetry]

> Gideon Bachmann's Film Art radio program was the best! <

somebody asked JR if there was anyone doing a good movie radio show. JR didn't know. the inquirer looked like he had a plan for one.

> As far as gay politics were concerned... <

yeah actually i'm remembering, i read that it was slow to grow.

waddaya mean "christopher street raved." what's raved?

> I had an apartment ... just across from where Bob Dylan was supposed to have had an apartment (wow). <

did you ever spot anybody, walking around? or talk or listen?

> One time, late at night, Shel Silverstein was raving and completely out of his head in front of O. Henry's Restaurant; maybe he was developing a new children's story for you. <

heh. i think at that point i might only have been scheming for a womb with a window.

> across the street from the 10th Precinct. Oh yeah, it was a five-flight walk up as well. <

"no fun" X 2.
Eoliano
post #19  on January 17, 2003 - 7:36 PM PST  
You can get WBAI on your computer too.

Come to think of it, you can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant.

> i could get WBAI on my radio, in connecticut, the signal was coming straight along the water, maybe.

The signal probably traveled up the Long Island Sound.

> [starving for poetry]

Dylan Thomas reading in his deep lyrically rich baritone:

Now as I was young and easy under the apple boughs
About the lilting house and happy as the grass was green,
The night above the dingle starry,
Time let me hail and climb
Golden in the heydays of his eyes,
And honoured among wagons I was prince of the apple towns
And once below a time I lordly had the trees and leaves
Trail with daisies and barley
Down the rivers of the windfall light.

And as I was green and carefree, famous among the barns
About the happy yard and singing as the farm was home,
In the sun that is young once only,
Time let me play and be
Golden in the mercy of his means,
And green and golden I was huntsman and herdsman, the calves
Sang to my horn, the foxes on the hills barked clear and cold,
And the sabbath rang slowly
In the pebbles of the holy streams.

All the sun long it was running, it was lovely, the hay
Fields high as the house, the tunes from the chimneys, it was air
And playing, lovely and watery
And fire green as grass.
And nightly under the simple stars
As I rode to sleep the owls were bearing the farm away,
All the moon long I heard, blessed among stables, the nightjars
Flying with the ricks, and the horses
Flashing into the dark.

And then to awake, and the farm, like a wanderer white
With the dew, come back, the cock on his shoulder: it was all
Shining, it was Adam and maiden,
The sky gathered again
And the sun grew round that very day.
So it must have been after the birth of the simple light
In the first, spinning place, the spellbound horses walking warm
Out of the whinnying green stable
On to the fields of praise.

And honoured among foxes and pheasants by the gay house
Under the new made clouds and happy as the heart was long,
In the sun born over and over,
I ran my heedless ways,
My wishes raced through the house high hay
And nothing I cared, at my sky blue trades, that time allows
In all his tuneful turning so few and such morning songs
Before the children green and golden
Follow him out of grace,

Nothing I cared, in the lamb white days, that time would take me
Up to the swallow thronged loft by the shadow of my hand,
In the moon that is always rising,
Nor that riding to sleep
I should hear him fly with the high fields
And wake to the farm forever fled from the childless land.
Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
Time held me green and dying
Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

> waddaya mean "christopher street raved." what's raved?

It jumped, baby, it jumped!

> did you ever spot anybody, walking around? or talk or listen?

I saw lots of people, lots. You want names?

> heh. i think at that point i might only have been scheming for a womb with a window.

It doesn't matter. Silverstein's books were there just waiting for you when you popped out.

"no fun" X 2.

But I could roll out of bed and into a cafe, then instantly be at my classes at HB.
Eoliano
post #20  on January 17, 2003 - 7:39 PM PST  

> > [starving for poetry]

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