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A place for you to post comments on our articles.
74

Sex in the Movies Primer
Topic by: dwhudson
Posted: November 23, 2003 - 4:52 AM PST
Last Reply: November 25, 2003 - 12:07 PM PST

author topic: Sex in the Movies Primer
dwhudson
post #1  on November 23, 2003 - 4:52 AM PST  
"The story of sex in the movies is really two stories..."

The primer: Sex in the Movies. Discuss!
hamano
post #2  on November 23, 2003 - 10:18 PM PST  
The Beast
Eugenie
Scarlet Diva
Sex and Lucia
Bacchanales Sexuelles
Quiet Days in Clichy
The Image
Wayne Wang's The Center of the World
Sun-Woo Jang's Lies

I think all of these GreenCine titles were NOT discussed in the primer but sound very interesting. Should I put any or all of them on my queue? Has anyone seen these? Please help me get a clue!
dh22
post #3  on November 24, 2003 - 5:39 AM PST  
> On November 23, 2003 - 10:18 PM PST hamano wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> I think all of these GreenCine titles were NOT discussed in the primer but sound very interesting. Should I put any or all of them on my queue? Has anyone seen these? Please help me get a clue!
> ---------------------------------

I've seen The Beast. Its a terrible movie, but a pretty decent porn movie that toys around a bit with beastiality. There is an excruciatingly long horse mating scene in the beginning, and a long scene with a woman and a beast (really just a man in a bad beast costume.) I didn't find any part of the film romantic or intriguing. The only really noteworthy scene is the one where the blonde lead pleasures herself. As far as eroticism goes, it's excellent. But considering how valuable queue spots are, I dont think its worth renting, unless you have space to kill.


I poised this questions in the "porn" thread, but shouldn't films like this be put in the Adult section?? This went way beyond nudity. I'm not talking about the films in the primer, but The Beast, Caligula, and a couple others scattered around.
AReviewer
post #4  on November 24, 2003 - 1:42 PM PST  
> On November 24, 2003 - 5:39 AM PST dh22 wrote:

> I poised this questions in the "porn" thread, but shouldn't films like this be put in the Adult section?? This went way beyond nudity. I'm not talking about the films in the primer, but The Beast, Caligula, and a couple others scattered around.
>


I don't think so. These movies are still mainstream erotica, not hardcore porn.
They are European erotica though. This question of DH22 is another illustration of how different the attitude toward sex is in the US and in Europe. As Clooney put it recently, the US is a nation of prudes .
IMHO, Greencine, as ambassadors of art, should act toward alleviation of this unfortunate situation rather than perpetuating it.

dh22
post #5  on November 24, 2003 - 1:51 PM PST  
> On November 24, 2003 - 1:42 PM PST AReviewer wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> I don't think so. These movies are still mainstream erotica, not hardcore porn.
>
> ---------------------------------

Umm...Have you seen Caligula??? Oral sex and vaginal penetration is no longer considered hardcore?
AReviewer
post #6  on November 24, 2003 - 1:55 PM PST  
BTW, I liked "The Beast". No "redeeming social value" :) , but as a 70s european sexploitation flick, it's great. Borowczyk is a master of the genre.

AReviewer
post #7  on November 24, 2003 - 2:04 PM PST  
> On November 24, 2003 - 1:51 PM PST dh22 wrote:

>
> Umm...Have you seen Caligula??? Oral sex and vaginal penetration is no longer considered hardcore?

Yes, I have.

Have you seen "Romance" of Breillat, or "Baise moi"?

A movie may have "explicit" scenes in it, but still not be hardcore porn. Yet, again I'm not talking about the MPAA (damned-be-its-name) guidelines.

dh22
post #8  on November 24, 2003 - 3:35 PM PST  
Then what exactly would you consider hardcore? Silly me, I considered a group of young men ejactulating onto a woman's body "not for younger audiences." Besides, my argument was not a philosophical one. I'm not attempting to argue the bondaries of art. I'm talking about the point of creating an Adult section for the purpose of segregating films that are not legally rentable by underaged viewers, and then having such films left outside that section.
AReviewer
post #9  on November 24, 2003 - 4:24 PM PST  
> On November 24, 2003 - 3:35 PM PST dh22 wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Then what exactly would you consider hardcore? Silly me, I considered a group of young men ejactulating onto a woman's body "not for younger audiences." Besides, my argument was not a philosophical one. I'm not attempting to argue the bondaries of art. I'm talking about the point of creating an Adult section for the purpose of segregating films that are not legally rentable by underaged viewers, and then having such films left outside that section.
> ---------------------------------

I'm not sure about legality of renting. Can a R-rated or a NC-17-rated movie be legally rented by minors? Who decides what can or cannot be legally rented by minors? If I'm not mistaken, the law is quite fluid in this area. Some movies have "for adults only" disclaimers put there by the distributors. However, I don't think these disclaimers oblige anyone legally. They only serve to protect the distributors from potential liabilities.
It seems to me that a lot here depends on the consensus. "Caligula" is served by all movie stores and rent companies as mainstream. The same goes for "The beast". You can buy them on Amazon, or any other mainstream store. These movies are not considered porn by the consensus. I don't think there is any legal definition beyond this. So Greencine is covered here.
That's about the legality. Speaking about the "philosophical" part of the argument, I don't accept the "adults only" limits on the sexual materials -- no matter how explicit it is. So, if I were a renting company, I would never restrict anything unless I was absolutely forced to by the law; and not an inch further. But, that's my personal philosophical point of view. ;)

dh22
post #10  on November 24, 2003 - 7:37 PM PST  
Then you only serve to prove my point that there is no point in having an "Adult" section, unless you are going to be consistant about it.
hamano
post #11  on November 24, 2003 - 7:46 PM PST  
> The Beast
> Eugenie
> Scarlet Diva
> Sex and Lucia
> Bacchanales Sexuelles
> Quiet Days in Clichy
> The Image
> Wayne Wang's The Center of the World
> Sun-Woo Jang's Lies

So if these titles aren't PORNO or ADULT in the GreenCine sense of the word, what do you think we should call them? ART HOUSE EROTICA? Either way, even if they aren't considered porno (I'm sure if you walk into a video rental shop in Paris, these titles would probably be on the regular shelves and not in the curtained back room...how about in Germany, dwhudson?) maybe they should still show up as some kind of subcategory when you're browsing the ADULT section of GC. Right now the subcategories are stuff like boy/boy or girl/girl....

Perhaps Hentai Anime and ART HOUSE EROTICA should be subcategories...
hamano
post #12  on November 24, 2003 - 8:04 PM PST  
Maybe things got confusing because the Primer came out with the introduction of the Adult Titles. The Primer dealt with a wide variety of sex themed films, not just porno, but the new Adult section was 100% porno. We should get a separate Porno Primer (that would be interesting to me!) in addition to the Sex in the Movies Primer...

I agree that these European and Asian titles are not porno, but I wish we could pin them down for whatever they are instead of beating around the bush (ooops!)...
dh22
post #13  on November 25, 2003 - 5:55 AM PST  
> On November 24, 2003 - 8:04 PM PST hamano wrote:
> ---------------------------------
We should get a separate Porno Primer (that would be interesting to me!) in addition to the Sex in the Movies Primer...
> ---------------------------------

This would be interesting, but probably not worth GC's time at the moment, since their current selection is quite limited.

Question for dwhudson. In GC's primers, are all the films discussed available for rent here?
dwhudson
post #14  on November 25, 2003 - 6:07 AM PST  

> > The Beast
> > Eugenie
> > Scarlet Diva
> > Sex and Lucia
> > Bacchanales Sexuelles
> > Quiet Days in Clichy
> > The Image
> > Wayne Wang's The Center of the World
> > Sun-Woo Jang's Lies
>
> ... (I'm sure if you walk into a video rental shop in Paris, these titles would probably be on the regular shelves and not in the curtained back room...how about in Germany, dwhudson?)

For the most part, yes. There are a few chains, though, that are trying to be the German equivalent of Blockbuster (though none are nearly as big). They wouldn't necessarily make these titles as inaccessible to young-uns as outright porn, but they might be shelved in an area along with extremely violent horror or some such, an area cordoned off for adults only.

But most rental outlets, of course, will shelve them right along with the rest of their catalog.
dwhudson
post #15  on November 25, 2003 - 6:09 AM PST  

> Question for dwhudson. In GC's primers, are all the films discussed available for rent here?

Sometimes, there's no getting around at least mentioning a title that isn't yet available on DVD; usually we say so right there in the text, but the clearest way of telling whether or not it's available is the link; if we link it, we've got it!
underdog
post #16  on November 25, 2003 - 12:07 PM PST  
> On November 25, 2003 - 6:09 AM PST dwhudson wrote:
> ---------------------------------
>
> > Question for dwhudson. In GC's primers, are all the films discussed available for rent here?
>
> Sometimes, there's no getting around at least mentioning a title that isn't yet available on DVD; usually we say so right there in the text, but the clearest way of telling whether or not it's available is the link; if we link it, we've got it!
> ---------------------------------

If a film is on DVD and its mentioned, we most certainly have it. But in some of the primers, such as the Women in Film primer, quite a few of the films mentioned are not on DVD. Generally, of course, it is good to have as many of the mentioned films as possible be available on DVD, but sometimes we sacrifice our desire to point to dvds for the sake of good historical overview or an important point.

Craig
GreenCine Associate Editor
craig@greencine.com

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