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Discuss all topics related to anime.
561

FINALLY!! A US Release Date for Howl's Moving Castle!
Topic by: Shaky
Posted: February 7, 2005 - 3:38 PM PST
Last Reply: June 27, 2005 - 9:31 AM PDT

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author topic: FINALLY!! A US Release Date for Howl's Moving Castle!
Shaky
post #1  on February 7, 2005 - 3:38 PM PST  
According to Nausicaa.net, the US premiere for Howl's Moving Castle will be June 10, 2005 at the El Capitan Theater in Hollywood, which is owned by Disney. It will go into limited release June 17. No word yet whether this will be the real film or the Disney dub.

In other news, Disney has also decided to make a live-action version of Kiki's Delivery Service. I'm not sure why.
jross3
post #2  on February 7, 2005 - 3:52 PM PST  
> On February 7, 2005 - 3:38 PM PST Shaky wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> In other news, Disney has also decided to make a live-action version of Kiki's Delivery Service. I'm not sure why.
> ---------------------------------

If you ever find out... there's probably a lecture tour you could join. That kind of wisdom must be shared.

I'm glad to hear this, though! (not the live-action Kiki, the Howl's Moving Castle news.) I'm pretty sure I won't be able to see it (I hate living nowhere), but it's good news none the less. Now, if only we can destroy Disney and its disasterous mainstreaming campaign, we may reach a state of progress....
hamano
post #3  on February 7, 2005 - 5:27 PM PST  
> On February 7, 2005 - 3:38 PM PST Shaky wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> In other news, Disney has also decided to make a live-action version of Kiki's Delivery Service. I'm not sure why.
> ---------------------------------

They'll probably insist it's based on the original novel and has nothing to do with the Miyazaki anime version! Dakota Fanning will play Kiki, maybe?
underdog
post #4  on February 7, 2005 - 6:04 PM PST  
> On February 7, 2005 - 5:27 PM PST hamano wrote:
> ---------------------------------
>
> They'll probably insist it's based on the original novel and has nothing to do with the Miyazaki anime version! Dakota Fanning will play Kiki, maybe?
> ---------------------------------

God help us all. (But you're probably right, given how ubiquitous she suddenly is.) I did actually like Kirsten Dunst's dubbed version of Kiki, so if they'd done this ten years ago that could have worked, maybe...

Anyway, good news about Howl's, Shaky!

Cinenaut
post #5  on February 8, 2005 - 8:02 AM PST  
I saw Spirited Away at the El Capitan, which was a lot of fun, but they didn't have anybody playing the Wurlitzer organ from the old (and sadly demolished) Fox theater in San Francisco. Maybe I'll have to head down there again for Howl's.
Shaky
post #6  on February 8, 2005 - 2:37 PM PST  
The Alabama Theater, built in 1927 in my home town of Birmingham, has a restored Mighty Wurlitzer built into the walls with the original console on an elevator that comes up out of the stage in front of the screen. Someone plays it before and after most shows, and each year around Halloween they show the silent version of Phantom of the Opera with organ accompaniment. Prior to some shows there are sing-alongs, with the lyrics to the songs projected on the screen so that everyone knows the words. The theater seats 2200 people, and when you get a packed house singing along with that thunderous organ it can be a real hoot.

The place was almost demolished but was just barely saved by a nonprofit corporation formed primarily to rescue it from its bankrupt owners. They raised money and renovated it, and the result is amazing. The theater is now the home of Birmingham's Sidewalk Moving Picture Festival, a film festival (organized by one of my old classmates) that has surprised everyone with its popularity, especially the corrupt and useless Birmingham city government which is quite jealous that it had nothing to do with it. The festival has spread from the Alabama to include two other historic theaters in the area, and the nonprofit that originally rescued the Alabama has discovered a hidden vaudeville theater sealed behind sheetrock in an old building that has been converted to retail space across the street. They have purchased that building and cleaned out all the pigeon shit, and they intend to restore the theater for movies during the festival as well as for live shows at other times of the year.

Sorry to hijack my own thread, but any time someone starts talking organs or movie palaces, I feel compelled to talk up one of the few cultural successes of my home town.
Cosplayer
post #7  on February 8, 2005 - 3:03 PM PST  
Now, if only we can destroy Disney and its disasterous mainstreaming campaign, we may reach a state of progress....
> ---------------------------------

They're doing it htemselves! They've p'ssed off the animators so much, that now all they've got is brother bear and that...chicken movie! Their live actions have started sucking too! Their industrialization shall be their downfall!!!!!
Shaky
post #8  on February 8, 2005 - 4:54 PM PST  
I don't mind Disney's "mainstreaming" of Studio Ghibli work because it brings it to the masses where it can be enjoyed by all. If it weren't for Disney, significantly fewer people would ever have seen Princess Mononoke or Spirited Away, there likely wouldn't have been an Academy Award nomination, and, perhaps most importantly, other Ghibli works like Nausicaa would not be coming to the US except in substandard bootlegs.

The only thing that bothers me about Disney's treatment of the work is that they cast great live-action actors with big names to draw in the audiences but only get mediocre voice work out of them. A Miyazaki film with American voices is almost always dull and flat compared with the original, despite the fact that there's some really good talent in the booth. I cannot watch the Disney version of Princess Mononoke, even though I like Gillian Anderson, because the Japanese voice work is just soooooooooooo much better. And it's not just that American actors can't do good voice work; the voice acting in the Pixar films proves that.

That's why I'm hoping this summer's release of Howl will have the original Japanese soundtrack, or at the least if it's the dub they'll also do a limited release of the original.

As for Disney's other work, hits come and go. They're losing Pixar's brilliance, which will hit them hard. But they've been through crap periods before and come back, so there's no reason to believe they won't get some new blood in the decision-making positions and swing back the other way.
hamano
post #9  on February 8, 2005 - 5:48 PM PST  
> On February 8, 2005 - 4:54 PM PST Shaky wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> The only thing that bothers me about Disney's treatment of the work is that they cast great live-action actors with big names to draw in the audiences but only get mediocre voice work out of them. A Miyazaki film with American voices is almost always dull and flat compared with the original, despite the fact that there's some really good talent in the booth. I cannot watch the Disney version of Princess Mononoke, even though I like Gillian Anderson, because the Japanese voice work is just soooooooooooo much better. And it's not just that American actors can't do good voice work; the voice acting in the Pixar films proves that.

I thought they did a pretty good job with Spirited Away... I think the problem arises from the fact that with Pixar's (and most other American productions) films the big-name live-action stars get to act their hearts out because the animators go and redo the animation afterwards to fit their voices. They don't have the constraint of having to match their speaking to the action.

For dubbing Japanese anime, lacking the ADR experience of the veteran Japanese voice actors and directors, the American actors lose a degree or two in terms of acting energy and "live presence" because they have to be mindful of the moving image that's already there, which can't be changed.

This is going to be a perennial problem with Japanese work coming over here to be dubbed into English, especially since the American actors don't have anyone to act off of. They sit alone in the recording booth, unlike in Japan where the entire voice acting staff for a scene line up with mikes, playing off each other. That's why the American voices sound "dull and flat"...

Consequently, there is an opposite effect where often the most spirited voice work by American/Canadian actors occur when they just couldn't give a damn about respecting the original material or butchered it anyway... I'm thinking of Pokemon (Rachel Lillis, Eric Stuart) and Sailor Moon (Terri Hawkes, Susan Roman), stuff like that. Of course I'm talking about the energy level, not acting ability, but sometimes, with anime, that's equally or arguably more important in enjoying a dub...

I think the American licensees should sacrifice name recognition for ADR talent... big name actors don't really draw audiences into an animated film. I think Sinbad proved that.
Chamelion
post #10  on February 9, 2005 - 4:13 AM PST  
>> films the big-name live-action stars get to act their >>hearts out because the animators go and redo the >>animation afterwards to fit their voices. They don't have >>the constraint of having to match their speaking to the
>>action.


Actually, Voice acting is completed and finalized before any animation is begun.. Especially in larger films when some VAs will adlib stuff and the animators will draw based on the new version. Robin Williams did that with the Genie.

But on the dubbing issue, things have to be changed not just to try to match lip movement of an already produced animation.. but entire phrases and context may be changed because of length.

Always hated it when a VA would pause... before completing a sentence.. just to get it to fit.. or repeat parts of it twice.

Personally I was quite happy with Kiki's Dub.. Dunst and Hartman did an excellent job with the material at hand.

As for a live action Kiki.. it's a very simply story over all.. and if they just respect the material, I think thy can do a good job with it.

C
hamano
post #11  on February 9, 2005 - 8:00 AM PST  
> On February 9, 2005 - 4:13 AM PST Chamelion wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Actually, Voice acting is completed and finalized before any animation is begun.. Especially in larger films when some VAs will adlib stuff and the animators will draw based on the new version. Robin Williams did that with the Genie.

Mmmm... I don't know about that... especially with the computer stuff, I don't think the actors are working only off of non-animated storyboards and such. I might be wrong about that, and different animation houses might have different degrees to which they pre-record the voices prior to drawing the animation.

You're right about Aladdin and that vintage of Disney stuff though. They could use the actor's faces to actually draw expressions and match mouth movements.
hamano
post #12  on February 9, 2005 - 8:12 AM PST  
> On February 9, 2005 - 4:13 AM PST Chamelion wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> As for a live action Kiki.. it's a very simply story over all.. and if they just respect the material, I think thy can do a good job with it.

I don't disagree with that, either. I kinda liked the live action Jungle Book they did with Jason Lee as Mowgli... But note that Mowgli and the village maiden he falls for weren't kids anymore in the live action version (and the girl was turned into a shiksa!). Disney COULD do something similar with Kiki... who ever heard of a 13 year old girl in modern America striking out on her own? In the tradition of bosomy (older) live action versions of Dorothy (Oz), Snow White and Cinderella, Kiki might become a 16 to 18 year old played by a 20 year old actress... and the romance element might be played up. The time and setting might be updated and Americanized as well.

That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, either... (Freaky Friday). I guess the point is no one wants to see a beloved Miyazaki classic go the way of Rocky & Bullwinkle...
Chamelion
post #13  on February 9, 2005 - 11:42 AM PST  
> Mmmm... I don't know about that... especially with the computer stuff, I don't think the actors are working only off of non-animated storyboards and such. I might be wrong about that, and different animation houses might have different degrees to which they pre-record the voices prior to drawing the animation.

A script is produced, accurate descriptions of the material is discussed with the actors and they have a bit of free range to bring their own aspect to the character. Check out extras that show behind the scenes on any Disney or even Anime title.. on occasion you get to see 'recording sessions' Most always, the actors are in a small studio, with headsets on, speaking into microphones while holding a script. Unless it's a DUB job, there are no video screens present to 'follow mouth movement'.

Actually, if I recall, the special edition of the Lion King specifically talks about the difficulty in dubbing the movie into so many foreign languages, as the English version was animated to the actors voices.

Still gets me how subtitled anime used to be more expensive them dubbed versions when they were only released on VHS. Heh.

hamano
post #14  on February 9, 2005 - 3:55 PM PST  
Well, my main point is that the difference Shaky hears when he watches a dubbed anime film probably stems from actors being constrained by already existing mouth-movements, etc.

If you watch the equivalent DVD extras of the Japanese voice actors recording their parts in Japan, they're all lined up behind 3 or 4 mike stands wearing headsets and facing a big screen that's showing the animation. I don't know how Studio Ghibli handles the ADR recording, but for TV shows and other films (Fruits Basket, Figure 17, Patlabor WXIII Mini-Pato Theater) it's clear the way they do the ADR in Japan is very different from the American standard.
Chamelion
post #15  on February 10, 2005 - 4:12 AM PST  

> If you watch the equivalent DVD extras of the Japanese voice actors recording their parts in Japan, they're all lined up behind 3 or 4 mike stands wearing headsets and facing a big screen that's showing the animation. I


TV animation is different from theatrical animation in 90% of the cases. In Tv/OVA animations, the mouths dont move, they open and close to the sound of the voices... or vice versa, there is little work put into matching exact mouth movements to voice. It's basically an animation cell overlapping a blank face cell.

In Disney animations and most theatrical movies, the entire face is animated as one drawing, eyes, mouth and all.. so it has to match more intrically with the voice actors... hence, doing voices first. Then it's timed to the animation and synced to match.

C
kamapuaa
post #16  on February 10, 2005 - 9:56 PM PST  
> (and the girl was turned into a shiksa!). Disney COULD do something similar with Kiki...

shiksa: Offensive. Used as a disparaging term for a non-Jewish girl or woman.

You mean, the girl wasn't Indian, and Kiki similarly won't be Japanese? That's what I would expect if it's an American production. Even in the orignal cartoon, it seemed to be set in a San Francisco/Germany type city (albeit one where everybody happens to speak Japanese).

I liked Kiki's a lot. I think the story and the actors could be replicated fine, but I don't know if they could find a real-life city charming enough to fit.
hamano
post #17  on February 11, 2005 - 6:56 AM PST  
> On February 10, 2005 - 9:56 PM PST kamapuaa wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> shiksa: Offensive. Used as a disparaging term for a non-Jewish girl or woman.

Oh, come on, pigboy, surely you don't think that shiksa is still an offensive word! It passed into the vernacular a long time ago, and now it's more like a quaint cultural reference used by Jewish mothers when their sons make the WRONG choice in wives! Were you really offended? I bet you had to look it up!

If you REALLY believe that it's offensive, show me some citations and an example of how you were offended by it... As far as I know, it's a fairly commonly used term similar to belagaana or gringo. Or are your delicate white Anglo sensibilities offended by those words as well?

^_^
hamano
post #18  on February 11, 2005 - 7:04 AM PST  
NOTE: for all you non-Jewish readers out there...

Etymologically, shiksa derives from the feminine form of the Yiddish word sheygets, which in turn comes from the Hebrew word for "blemish"... literally, at worst it means "detested object"... Of course, I guess it would depend on how you say it, but that would be the same with gaijin or haole....
Cinenaut
post #19  on February 11, 2005 - 8:42 AM PST  
Don't you see where Disney might be going with Kiki?

Kiki Potter -- Student Witch!
hamano
post #20  on February 11, 2005 - 9:42 AM PST  
> On February 11, 2005 - 8:42 AM PST Cinenaut wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Don't you see where Disney might be going with Kiki?
>
> Kiki Potter -- Student Witch!
> ---------------------------------

It's their chance to kiss and make nice with Hilary Duff! (I just wanna get her off Joan of Arcadia as soon as possible...)
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