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561

Re-telling of anime (alternate world, etc...)
Topic by: markhl
Posted: April 15, 2003 - 5:45 PM PDT
Last Reply: February 5, 2004 - 7:07 PM PST

page  1  2      prev | next
author topic: Re-telling of anime (alternate world, etc...)
markhl
post #1  on April 15, 2003 - 5:45 PM PDT  
Hi everyone,

One of the recent postings from another thread reminded me of this question that has been lingering for quite a while for me. What better forum to discuss it in in this one?

In any case, japanese animation seem to be somewhat unique (at least in my mind) in that it is fairly common practice for an anime series to be "retold" in a completely different fashion than the original (i.e., not a sequel) No apologies, no explanations, no nothin! Just a completely different storyline with the same characters staring back at you...

Some of the notable examples that I can think of are:

Tenchi Muyo! - TV series, then Tenchi Universe (not to
mention the movies)
El Hazard - Magnificient World vs. Alternative World
(I'm sure there are many other examples - feel free to name some)

So I wanted to see what the general opinion was among this group as to which they generally prefer. Just to start off, I usually fall into the category of liking the original and being bemusingly watching the re-telling. A notable exception is the Bubblegum Crisis series where I actually preferred the latter Tokyo 2040 version. (although this may fall into the remake category)
syntax
post #2  on April 18, 2003 - 5:52 PM PDT  
Personally, as much as I liked Neon Genesis Evangelion, I'd absolutely love to see a remake or a "retold" version. As well as Lain. Lain might be a little too early to consider it, though.
markhl
post #3  on April 18, 2003 - 7:48 PM PDT  
Well, in a way, there is a much less serious, comical version of NEG called Dual! somethingsomething. (As soon as I finish the series, I was going to post something here)That's what happens when Evangelion meets the Tenchi Muyo makers I guess. As much as I'd like to see more of Evangelion, I dunno about messing with such a successful series. People complain about all the loose ends, etc. but I almost wouldn't change a thing about the series/movie... It would be a pretty bold undertaking to remake NEG as another serious series though I think.

Lain.. hmm.. I hear everyone but my mind just rejected the series after the first DVD. I'm going to have to wait a little to rewatch the series since all the techy stuff didn't click with me unfortunately.

Thanks for posting. I was starting to wonder if I was going to talk to myself after a while :)



> On April 18, 2003 - 5:52 PM PST syntax wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Personally, as much as I liked Neon Genesis Evangelion, I'd absolutely love to see a remake or a "retold" version. As well as Lain. Lain might be a little too early to consider it, though.
> ---------------------------------

syntax
post #4  on April 19, 2003 - 10:16 AM PDT  
>
> Well, in a way, there is a much less serious, comical version of NEG called Dual! somethingsomething.

I watched the first DVD of Dual. I just couldn't get into it. I don't know why. It has a lot of the things I look for in an anime. But, it just didn't hold my interest.

>
> As much as I'd like to see more of Evangelion, I dunno about messing with such a successful series. People complain about all the loose ends, etc. but I almost wouldn't change a thing about the series/movie... It would be a pretty bold undertaking to remake NEG as another serious series though I think.

I don't want for them to remake the series as a way of explaining things clearer. I'm with you on that. I think as it is now it should never be changed. I don't go into... "the watching process..." thinking that the newer version of, say Bubblegum Crisis, is going to be the definitive story. And, that it is going to erase the story that came be fore it. No, I see it as a different story. One that may or may not be in line with the original. And for that reason, I'd like to see another NGE story. Maybe see Shinji actually stand up to Asuka for once. :)

>
> Lain.. hmm.. I hear everyone but my mind just rejected the series after the first DVD. I'm going to have to wait a little to rewatch the series since all the techy stuff didn't click with me unfortunately.

Lain is one of those stories that needs to be taken in small 1 episode per week bites. So you can think about the episode with plenty of time for the next. Watching an entire DVD at once may work for some, but not most. I watched it DVD by DVD myself and have probably missed some things. But, I still love it because it does make your mind want to switch off. You have to think about thing quite a bit.

>
> Thanks for posting. I was starting to wonder if I was going to talk to myself after a while :)

I find myself skimming the Anime board almost every day just to find something worth commenting on. This I don't mind talking about at all.
markhl
post #5  on April 19, 2003 - 4:40 PM PDT  
> I watched the first DVD of Dual. I just couldn't get into it. I don't know why. It has a lot of the things I look for in an anime. But, it just didn't hold my interest.

I know what you mean about Dual. Well, I think I could survive through the short series but there's a little voice in my head telling me that it's a bad knock on Evangelion. Perhaps it's the mixture of NEG with the Tenchi-like genre that has me unsettled. If I hadn't seen NEG first, I'd probably say I would think pretty highly of the series..

> I don't want for them to remake the series as a way of explaining things clearer. I'm with you on that. I think as it is now it should never be changed. I don't go into... "the watching process..." thinking that the newer version of, say Bubblegum Crisis, is going to be the definitive story. And, that it is going to erase the story that came be fore it. No, I see it as a different story. One that may or may not be in line with the original. And for that reason, I'd like to see another NGE story. Maybe see Shinji actually stand up to Asuka for once. :)

Hmm.. you've definitely got the mentality to handle the alternate versions pretty well. I think I get stuck because if I make it through to the second series, it's probably likely that I liked the first series the way it was. It's more from subconscious instinct rather than from analytical comparison. Why mess with a successful formula? Then again, some parts of me is itching for some more Evangelion. From what I've read before, another NEG is probably unlikely. It took them long enough to release the End of.. movie.

> Lain is one of those stories that needs to be taken in small 1 episode per week bites. So you can think about the episode with plenty of time for the next. Watching an entire DVD at once may work for some, but not most. I watched it DVD by DVD myself and have probably missed some things. But, I still love it because it does make your mind want to switch off. You have to think about thing quite a bit.

Hmm.. perhaps that is the secret to getting through to Lain for me (although it completely conflicts with my viewing patterns). It's strange because I seem to recall the animation being almost too clean.. too perfect with Lain which bothered me a bit. (seem a bit artificial maybe?) I saw it almost around the time I watched "Key the Metal Idol" and Lain might've suffered in comparison since I think pretty highly about the latter. Well, I'm sure I'll return to Lain eventually so thanks for the advice.
Barimen
post #6  on February 1, 2004 - 6:34 PM PST  
All Purpose Cultural Cat Girl Nuku Nuku vs Nuku Nuku DASH!

My instinct is to stick with the original, even though I didn't enjoy all the episodes equally, and have only seen the first volume of DASH! so far.

> On April 15, 2003 - 5:45 PM PDT markhl wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> In any case, japanese animation seem to be somewhat unique (at least in my mind) in that it is fairly common practice for an anime series to be "retold" in a completely different fashion than the original (i.e., not a sequel) No apologies, no explanations, no nothin! Just a completely different storyline with the same characters staring back at you...
>
> (I'm sure there are many other examples - feel free to name some)
> ---------------------------------

markhl
post #7  on February 1, 2004 - 6:42 PM PST  
Wow, I salute you Barimen for taking the time to trace back to an old old board (rather than starting a new one).. I haven't seen Nuku Nuku but I actually have another one to add as well since the last post..

Season 2 of Steel Angel Kurumi, more or less, is a re-telling of (the better) season 1. I guess the re-telling is never better than the original..
Barimen
post #8  on February 1, 2004 - 6:48 PM PST  
I had no trouble watching all of Lain, but so far haven't felt the need to own it, although the new Geneon Signature Series does make that a little more attractive.

> On April 18, 2003 - 7:48 PM PDT markhl wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Lain.. hmm.. I hear everyone but my mind just rejected the series after the first DVD. I'm going to have to wait a little to rewatch the series since all the techy stuff didn't click with me unfortunately.
> ---------------------------------

Barimen
post #9  on February 1, 2004 - 6:51 PM PST  
Thanks. Yes, I actually went to the far end of the list and am working my way forward in time, to see what I've missed.

I've seen only one volume of Kurumi, and none of Kurumi 2, but I thought it was a sequel, just with a similar story.

> On February 1, 2004 - 6:42 PM PST markhl wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Wow, I salute you Barimen for taking the time to trace back to an old old board (rather than starting a new one).. I haven't seen Nuku Nuku but I actually have another one to add as well since the last post..
>
> Season 2 of Steel Angel Kurumi, more or less, is a re-telling of (the better) season 1. I guess the re-telling is never better than the original..
> ---------------------------------

hamano
post #10  on February 1, 2004 - 7:09 PM PST  
Dual is a fantastic show! Almost as funny as Big O! (hamano further casts doubt as to his sanity) I own both of them. Truly, what happens in Vol. 4 of Dual is actually funny/inventive/different/hilarious. I agree the beginning is nothing to write home about. I was happy to have stuck with it.

I like it when anime shows take their cast and throw them into a time warp for an episode, say tossing them back into the Edo period from modern Japan. Also shows where one of the characters is dreaming and the whole cast ends up in a sort of parallel universe (Love Hina - Motoko's dream episode, Patlabor New OVA series where the cast is trapped in an episode of Ultraman).

What about that travesty Dirty Pair FLASH? I didn't even like the original Dirty Pair that much. Is that what we're talking about? Or are we talking about Utena Movie VS. Utena TV?

Another travesty... Hand Maid Mai... about 2% as good as Hand Maid May!

Arguably, Pokemon, Digimon and Yugioh are all clones of each other.

Has anybody seen the new Astroboy yet? I'm not up early enough on Saturday...

NLee, which version of Cutey Honey is the best?

I'm looking forward to Cybaa-speisu wa Hale nochi Lain, where Guu plays Lain.

Crap! I put too much sugar in my coffee again!
hamano
post #11  on February 2, 2004 - 7:51 PM PST  
Oh, this is the post that markhl saw, I think, before starting this thread.

> On February 1, 2004 - 10:07 PM PST fdguarino wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Most mainstream Hollywood sequels seldom live up to the expectations. Are there any anime sequels/remakes that are as good or better than the original? I can't think of any myself.
>
> -FDGUARINO
> ---------------------------------

Actually, I prefer the Battle Athletes Victory TV series to the Battle Athletes OVAs that preceded it. And I think the Ah, My Goddess Movie is superior to the OVA series. I bet some people would think that the Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust is better than the original, although I don't like either. And my favorite incarnation of Patlabor is the New Files OVA series that came out after the TV series, which came after the original OVA series. And of course there's the Kenshin Trust&Betrayal OVAs, which was released after the TV show started and is a prequel. And didn't Jin-Roh come out after the Red Spectacles? Jin-Roh is better.
markhl
post #12  on February 2, 2004 - 8:39 PM PST  
> On February 2, 2004 - 7:51 PM PST hamano wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Oh, this is the post that markhl saw, I think, before starting this thread.


Naah.. this was a "failed" board PH (pre-hamano).. one of my lesser children. Although this board was intended to talk about "retold" (only found in anime I think..) stories usually from popular series.. subtle but I thought it was an interesting phenomena.. (basically comes to marketing and finances really - so I was wondering if anything actually turned out better)

With respect to fguarino's post of better sequels. The taste was different and Banner I was slightly better than Crest I thought.. In the real movie world, Empire was better than Star Wars.. I could've sworn I typed this somewhere... hmm...
jstack
post #13  on February 3, 2004 - 5:58 AM PST  
I am mixed about this, becuase although I like the idea of watching something original and how it was first meant to be viewed, sometimes a retelling of the story can be good for "fixing" certain pieces.

Record of Lodoss War is one that I feel falls into this category. I like the original, but feel that the Chronicles of the Heroic Knight did a better job of portraying Parn as a real hero and not some pathetic novice who looked like he had never even held a sword before. I believe they also were able to add quite a bit of depth to Ashram, which worked out pretty well for the series overall.

On the other hand it took 26 (good) episodes of El-Hazard The Wanderers to tell a somewhat less potent story than the original 7 (great) episodes of the Magnificent World. They were able to add a little depth to some of the side characters, but not much more was needed for the main characters.
name0000
post #14  on February 3, 2004 - 9:13 AM PST  
Macross:Do You Remember Love
AFleming
post #15  on February 3, 2004 - 9:18 AM PST  
Here's my 2 cents:

I really liked the El-Hazard OVA much better than the later series. It was just, well... better. Funnier, less tired. I don't know.

SPOILER ALERT!

One that hasn't been mentioned and perhaps is one of my favorites is Escaflowne! I actually saw a fabsub of the movie first and really loved the art and setting. (I have a fondness for fantasy anyway.) I had to wait for the series to be released over here and bought it immediately (for an exhorbatant price, I might add). ANd I like it even better. I've read that some people hated the movie, I didn't, but maybe that was because I saw it first so I wasn't expecting anything. The series had better character development (a plus of having 26 episodes). I like the romance element between Vann and Hitomi better also (so sweet!). Hitomi was really (even more) annoying in the movie. What a character to make suicidal! I wanted to kick her around during the series, let alone making her SOOOooo Depressedddd. But I did really like how the guymeluf's fed off the pilots actual bodies in the movie. That was cool. Hmm... I'll have to watch the movie again. It's been a while!
hamano
post #16  on February 3, 2004 - 9:40 AM PST  
Hmmm... that's an interesting thought. Could new anime movies that recap the story of an older OAV or TV series be a way to generate more sales of the videos of the originals? I wonder if sales of the original show tapes and DVDs went up after first-timers saw the Utena and Escaflowne movies? Maybe it happens so frequently just because it's a commercial model that is profitable...
larbeck
post #17  on February 3, 2004 - 2:55 PM PST  
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, NO!

The LAST thing that Neon Genesis Evangelion needs is anymore comedy! The little bit of comedic relief from Pen-Pen was plenty!! It might could use a bit of editing and I certainly not mind Misato FINALLY making good on her unfulfilled promises of more fan service in the "On the Next Episode" teasers but the LAST thing I want to see it Eva get the MST3K treatment or turn into "Spaceballs"

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, NO!

Do NOT freak up one of the greatest tragedies in anime, PLEASE!!
larbeck
post #18  on February 3, 2004 - 2:58 PM PST  
> On February 1, 2004 - 7:09 PM PST hamano wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Has anybody seen the new Astroboy yet? I'm not up early enough on Saturday...
>
Just the last ten minutes. Rather interesting - I will have to tape the next one - it is part two of a two-parter.

Now, I have never seen any "Astro Boy" only read about it, but it looks like it should have a Japanese track and subtitles (that is a compliment). And no one is selling any damn card decks (so far). Maybe this will get me watching the WB on Saturday morning again.
markhl
post #19  on February 3, 2004 - 5:23 PM PST  
> On February 3, 2004 - 2:55 PM PST larbeck wrote:
> no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, NO!
>
> The LAST thing that Neon Genesis Evangelion needs is anymore comedy!


Uhh.. larbeck.. syntax's message was from 4/03 :) I think he's grown older and wiser since that post - especially after getting glimpses of the live-action.. hey.. is it THAT hard to cast three psychologically disturbed children and one (or two for Ritsuko fans) impossibly figured women?
syntax
post #20  on February 4, 2004 - 11:34 AM PST  
> Uhh.. larbeck.. syntax's message was from 4/03 :) I think he's grown older and wiser since that post - especially after getting glimpses of the live-action.. hey.. is it THAT hard to cast three psychologically disturbed children and one (or two for Ritsuko fans) impossibly figured women?
> ---------------------------------


My statements still stand.
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