GreenCine | board topic - fantasy pricing structure

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topic: fantasy pricing structure

woozy

post #1 on May 12, 2005 - 6:08 PM PDT

Let's be back-seat drivers. Let's be spinster aunts giving unasked for marriage advice.

I'm fantasizing of a DVD by mail on-line service with the following pay as you rent pricing structure. A "rental" is a disk for a week plus a free week for mail time. Keeping it for two weeks (plus the week mailing) counts as two rentals. Pricing $3 per rental up to four rentals a month ($12 for 4 movies in a month). $2 for the next four rentals ($20 for 8 movies in a month). $1 for the next four ($24 for 12 movies a month). $1 for only rentals that bring you total at one time to over three (I figure this is equivalent to $28 for a 4 out plan $32 for a 5 out, etc. $44 for an 8 out, $52 for a 10 out)

So if you want to have 10 movies one weekend, then three the next week, two the next and a week with no movies at all, That'd be $24. Or 4 movies one week, two the next, 6 the next and three the last, that be... gee, also $24. Maybe $1 a flick for all over 8.)

What do you guys think?

jross3

post #2 on May 12, 2005 - 6:31 PM PDT
I think that "$21.95 a month" is a lot easier to communicate to customers. Plus, there's the "no due date" thing, which I've certainly used more than once... And if I were to make a "fantasy pricing structure", GC would be paying me per day of membership (on an exopnential growth scale).

artifex

post #3 on May 12, 2005 - 6:59 PM PDT

If it's my service, I reserve the right to come to your house and break one of your DVDs if you mishandle one of mine... :) (as you might have guessed, I've discovered that people suck when it comes to taking care of others' media.)

Also, let's say everyone wants to check out 10 discs the first week of the month. And none the third week. Major supply issues, there. Not to mention, do you tell the shipping department to not come to work certain weeks of the month? Do they get paid more for that first week?

woozy

post #4 on May 12, 2005 - 7:03 PM PDT

> And if I were to make a "fantasy pricing structure", GC would be paying me per day of membership (on an exopnential growth scale).
> ---------------------------------

I like that! Well, for me, not you...

I'm just thinking of feasable alternatives to the subscription model (and I'm only thinking for the heck of it). $21.95 flat fee for everyone is nice except I feel pressured to watch as fast as I can whether I want to or not, and no due date is nice except I can't get any more movies until I return the ones I have so that's really six of one have a dozen of another.

I guess my watching habits tend to want a set of fifteen I want to watch right away over the next two weeks, then none, the another set of eight all at once, then none for a week or two, etc. This is probably the impulsive, manic-depressent, obsessive compulsive in me talking. Patience, planning, and consistancy (all virtues satisfied by an n-out subscription plan) aren't my strong suits.

woozy

post #5 on May 12, 2005 - 7:16 PM PDT

> Also, let's say everyone wants to check out 10 discs the first week of the month. And none the third week. Major supply issues, there. Not to mention, do you tell the shipping department to not come to work certain weeks of the month? Do they get paid more for that first week?
>
I was thinking the month begins when the member rents his first disk. Not the same date for all. But you have a point, people may tend to want to rent a bunch at the end when they are cheaper. My idea was that it's not worth trying to nickle and dime.

My first idea was a tier of monthly rates. Free membership for $3 a rental. $4/month for either $2 a disk or a one out plan. $8/month for either $1 dollar a rental or a 2 out plan. $16/month for 3 out plan or free rentals with a $2/week late fee, but then I figure make more sense to let the person automatically upgrade when it becomes economical. But rather than some complicated explanation that became simply. $3 each for first 4, $2 each for next 4, $1 each after that.

Actually, I wouldn't have to worry about everyone renting oodles at the end of the month because they'd have to rent at $3 the next month sometime. You'd just want to *quit* at the end of a month then the beginning but thats always the case.

woozy

post #6 on May 12, 2005 - 7:27 PM PDT

> Also, let's say everyone wants to check out 10 discs the first week of the month. And none the third week.

Why would people want to do that?

I figure due-dates / limits of how many at a time are flip sides of the same card to prevent hording. If I decide I want to keep Muriel's wedding for ... whenever ... after all there is no due date... The n-out plan gives me incentive to not be a dick. (I can't get another until I return it). A due date does the same thing. If I decide I might as well rent out the entire stock cause I'll get around to seeing them sometime and there's no limit to how many I can rent, well, I have to pay extra for however selfishly I want to keep them.

hamano

post #7 on May 12, 2005 - 7:36 PM PDT
How about this? Let's say with new releases, you charge people $4 or so for a 2 day rental... older titles can be kept for a week. If the customer doesn't return the DVD within the allotted time, you can charge them some kind of penalty... maybe we should call those "late fees" or something.

woozy

post #8 on May 12, 2005 - 7:47 PM PDT

> On May 12, 2005 - 7:36 PM PDT hamano wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> How about this? Let's say with new releases, you charge people $4 or so for a 2 day rental... older titles can be kept for a week. If the customer doesn't return the DVD within the allotted time, you can charge them some kind of penalty... maybe we should call those "late fees" or something.
> ---------------------------------

Well, actually, the video store model (except for the dumb different policies for new releases) is what I was trying to replicate (except in a manner convienent to mailing orders).

Do you guys *really* hate late fees? I honestly don't see any difference between late fees and n-out plans (in both you pay for how long you keep the movie).

Bowwow

post #9 on May 12, 2005 - 7:57 PM PDT

To be honest, I like the X amount of dollars per month plans a lot. What is really interesting to me is that while that structure makes you feel you have to watch movies as fast as you can, it makes me feel like I dont have to because I know that even if it takes me forever to get around to watching, I wont have to pay any more than I have already budgeted for movies that month. And if I keep a movie for an entire month (which I have just done with one of my GC movies so I hope no one has been waiting for it), I dont worry about late fees piling up. And it is nice to know that it is here in my house waiting for me whenever I feel like watching it.

hamano

post #10 on May 12, 2005 - 8:18 PM PDT

We can form bands of armed militia and drive around in black humvees emblazoned with the skull and crossbones. We just hit all the stores, retail AND rental, and we "rent" whatever we want. No late fees, no rental fees, no purchases! After we conquer our local outlets, we can combine the militia into larger armies and hit the Netflix warehouses! We'll hand those over to Dwoodwoo to run as a "legit" front for our operation, under the GreenCine flag, but in fact he and underdog will have to pay US to rent DVDs from them! You DID say "fantasy" pricing structure, right?

woozy

post #11 on May 12, 2005 - 9:06 PM PDT

I dont worry about late fees piling up. And it is nice to know that it is here in my house waiting for me whenever I feel like watching it.
>
That's true. My problem I guess Is I don't like planning what I'm going to want to watch two days in the future or missing a title I do want because for some dumb reason I thought I wanted to watch "Better than Chocolate". Plus I don't like feeling monogomous to one video service but if I go to a store on the side or have a NF and a GC account I feel I'm just wasting money.

What I'd kinda like, but I can't come up with a good mechanism that'd be comfortable is a "tide" out where I can have 6 lying about to chose from and then some slack period with none so it averages to 3.

I suppose the 6 or eight out plan is a good option for me in that I'd always have a choice for my whim at the moment. However I can't really accept the fact that it'd cost much more but I wouldn't really watch any more movies than I would with the three out plan.

Hey, how about this idea. I rent as many as I want when I want. The service bills me what it thinks it should be. I counter offer. And we haggle. "I don't think I should pay so much for that DVD; it only had one 30 minute episode on it. And that adult title... It was *boring*. Oh, but I did use that one as a coaster so I guess you can charge me more."

kohnfused1

post #12 on May 13, 2005 - 11:52 AM PDT
Is this like the umpteenth version of "that" game>? When is it really going to be the "Final...."?

kolohe61

post #13 on May 13, 2005 - 12:01 PM PDT
"And if I keep a movie for an entire month (which I have just done with one of my GC movies so I hope no one has been waiting for it)" It better not be disc 2 of The Kingdom... :-)

artifex

post #14 on May 13, 2005 - 12:09 PM PDT

> On May 12, 2005 - 7:27 PM PDT woozy wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > Also, let's say everyone wants to check out 10 discs the first week of the month. And none the third week.
>
> Why would people want to do that?

Because the first weekend is a holiday weekend (think January, July) and the third week, everyone is humping it to finish the quarterly TPS reports, or something. I don't know. Ask retailers who properly track inventory, though, and they're likely to see those waves.

artifex

post #15 on May 13, 2005 - 12:14 PM PDT

> On May 13, 2005 - 12:01 PM PDT kolohe61 wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> "And if I keep a movie for an entire month (which I have just done with one of my GC movies so I hope no one has been waiting for it)"
>
> It better not be disc 2 of The Kingdom... :-)

In the past, GC has suddenly marked a few discs as no longer available all at once, and we speculated that they did an inventory review and decided some people were never returning discs they had out for 6 months, or they quit. :\

GC should probably have an upper limit, say something huge like 2 months. I say huge, I remember being asked by my sister to return some NF discs she had out, while she was in school, and she'd held them for 3+ months because she "didn't have time" to return them.

woozy

post #16 on May 13, 2005 - 12:40 PM PDT

> GC should probably have an upper limit, say something huge like 2 months. I say huge, I remember being asked by my sister to return some NF discs she had out, while she was in school, and she'd held them for 3+ months because she "didn't have time" to return them.
> ---------------------------------

I'm thinking upper limit of two months with option to buy.

Hmm, so now I'm thinking something like, three plan models with options:
Per Rental: $3 per, or $4 per month $2 per, $8 per month $1 per. Or $16 per month unlimitted free rentals but $2 per week for every rental kept over a week.

Or
Subscription: $4/month 1 out, $8/month, 2 out, $16 three out, $20 four out, $24 five out, etc. Subscribers can also rent extras, 1 out $3 per rental, 2 out $2 per rental, all others $1 per rental.

And my crazy-assed third option is "controlled throughput" where you can have n-out at a time but Wooz-flix will only allow you an average of m turnover a week. This will be significantly cheaper than regular n-out, but significantly more expensive than m-out. This way the viewer has the (paid for) luxury ove always having n titles in her "library" but has the restricted (savings) that she only watches so many in a period of time. This allows a "hold a spot open for X when it's available option" as well. And of course per rentals are available if wanted.

This last one is probably crazy in that it encourages keeping movies out longer.

originaldiva

post #17 on June 3, 2005 - 6:10 PM PDT

I'm happy with the pricing structure the way that it is, with no due dates. Everything else that has been suggested sounds WAYYYY complicated.

I now have the 2-out GreenCine plan, and Blockbuster's basic plan (3 for $14.95). I get my crap big blockbuster movies from Blockbuster, and the more interesting stuff from here. I don't get cable. So between the two, I am paying $30/month and see anywhere between 3 and 5 DVDs per week. That is still way cheaper than going to see 3 movies at the theater (especially here in LA, where it's $10 or more per film now).

It works for me. No complaints here.

woozy

post #18 on June 3, 2005 - 8:16 PM PDT

> I now have the 2-out GreenCine plan, and Blockbuster's basic plan (3 for $14.95). I get my crap big blockbuster movies from Blockbuster, and the more interesting stuff from here. I don't get cable. So between the two, I am paying $30/month and see anywhere between 3 and 5 DVDs per week. That is still way cheaper than going to see 3 movies at the theater (especially here in LA, where it's $10 or more per film now).
>
Yeah, but I want my cake and eat it too.

My real problem is I don't really want to *think* about how I watch videos but when you subscribe to a service you pretty much have to plan ahead. When I plan ahead there's a million I want to watch and I want to watch all the time. If I *don't* think ahead 3 to 5 videos is way more than I'd ever want to watch in a week but I'd like to have five on hand to choose from when I watch. I'm somewhere in the cracks between the supposed 150 million households who rent less than once a month and the movie fan who like to watch every night.

Anyhow, I decided if I think of it as a budget and figure 3 a week with five on hand between nf and gc that works when I do the numbers. But I had to do the numbers to get my obsessive compulsive mind to calm down and accept it as it is.

Still if I were running wooz-OCD-flix (our slogan: where the plans are more fun than the films) I'd offer three basic plans, per rental, n-out, and n-out averaging m-per month. All which would pretty much work out to be the same. (It's important to realize I was talking about fantasy pricings and not an actual pricing structure I'd like any one to adapt.)

NarcTed

post #19 on June 5, 2005 - 4:51 PM PDT

One thing that has not been mentioned is that there are service fees involved for charging a credit card. With this proposed incremental structure Greencine would be charging us not just once a month, but potentially several times a month. This then leads to the credit card companies like Mastercard/Visa/American Express collecting fees several times a month and getting more money. I work in retail. You don't want cusotmers using their credit cards for purchases less than $10.

hardcle

post #20 on June 6, 2005 - 8:26 PM PDT

I've been thinking a geography based model might be good for GC. For a three out plan it would work like this:

If your shipping address is in the area where the USPS can deliver 1st class mail the next day (Metro SF), you pay full price, $21.95.

If your shipping address is in the area where the USPS can deliver 1st class mail in two days (~500 miles), you pay $19.95.

For the rest of the country, where the USPS is theoretically supposed to deliver 1st class mail in three days, you pay $17.95.

This might serve to quiet the grumbling amongst GC's more distant customers, while making things more fair for them. Since, as it stands now, customers who live farther away subsidize those who live closer in.

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