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Those films with a following all their own.
83

THE QUIBBLER: The Thread that Discusses the Truth about Harry Potter (SPOILERS!)
Topic by: hamano
Posted: April 19, 2004 - 11:02 AM PDT
Last Reply: July 31, 2009 - 9:50 PM PDT

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author topic: THE QUIBBLER: The Thread that Discusses the Truth about Harry Potter (SPOILERS!)
IronS
post #161  on July 19, 2005 - 1:28 PM PDT  
> On July 19, 2005 - 1:23 PM PDT woozy wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > As for you, woozy, my numerous :P are due to, well, your referring to me as "weird" in a previous posting and because it's just fun to do so to you. So there. :P
> >
> When did I call you weird?
>

Ahem!

> On July 16, 2005 - 10:55 PM PDT woozy wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > On July 16, 2005 - 10:51 PM PDT IronS wrote:
> > ---------------------------------
> > I read the last chapter of the book.... *sob!*
> >
> > I know it's kind of cheating to read the last chapter first, but I really wanted to know....
> > ---------------------------------
>
> Gad!!!! Don't tell me!!!! La-la-la-la-la-la-la....
>
> You know. I read that a surprising number of people always read the endings of books first to see if they'll like it.
>
> That always seemed so .... weird.
>
>
> ---------------------------------

I think that's grounds for a few :P to you.
woozy
post #162  on July 19, 2005 - 2:08 PM PDT  
> >
> > That always seemed so .... weird.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
>
> I think that's grounds for a few :P to you.
> ---------------------------------

You do? Okay here are a bunch more directed toward me:


:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P \_____^
P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P |0) |
:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P @ |
P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P |_ ___|
:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P __/ \ \


I'm sorry.


woozy
post #163  on July 19, 2005 - 7:50 PM PDT  
> I think that's grounds for a few :P to you.
> ---------------------------------

I merely described something you do (and only occasionaly) as sort of weird, which it is.

On another post, I also described you as thus: "Oh, she's smart, clever, practical, great sense of humor, unflappable, knowledgable on many subjects, well behaved, universally likable, great conversationalist, interesting, tenacious, omniscient, clever, and the most perfect companion-doppelganger-soulmate-stalker-mentor-hero-student-idolizer-idol-anything anyone in the history of the world could ever want. To my mind that's pretty nifty."

If the former, which isn't much, warrants half a dozen :P's, than the latter, which is quite a bit more, surely warrants a peek or two down your icon's blouse kind word or two.

woozy
post #164  on July 19, 2005 - 9:47 PM PDT  
> On July 18, 2005 - 2:20 PM PDT IronS wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Please note that the word "SPOILERS" is in the title of this thread itself so consider yourselves forwarned.
>

Yes, and my comment is going to discuss the spoiler further.

> I'm now grousing to myself about the "Obiwan Kenobi" scene in the book. Why, like "Star Wars", does the young male protagonist need to lose his father figure? Can't he come of age with his father figure around?

Sigh, this is almost now part of the myth cycle. The Hero's journey and all that rot.

>> I don't see a whole lot of killing off the mother figure for a young woman to come of age.

Women come of age? I that they just get carried of by the young man and then popped out the next batch of heros. (just kidding)

You aren't overthinking it.

> Is it due to still needing the mother figure for help and advice in childbirth and childrearing - a dynamic that is not really present in the young man/father figure situation? Does the present of a father figure somehow prevent the young man from fully coming into his adult male status?

Gad, this is *such* my idiot father's domain that I hate to say this: The symbolism is that the father forms you but you can not be your own until you cast off what others made you. To recognize one's own power, one must best the power that one used to rely upon and thus realize that one has surpassed the support one used to rely upon. In other words, one must surpass/kill ones father. There's that dumb story about Picasso's father (also a painter) who saw one of Picasso's early masterpieces and as a result put down his paintbrushes and never painted again. It's the same thing. Is pretty sexist though.


And cliche. So, shall we start betting Voldemount right before killing James Potter rendered the last horcrux intertwined with James Potter's soul so will get a "Harry, I am your father" scene? Heh, heh, what if the last horcrux is in Harry Potter himself?


woozy
post #165  on July 19, 2005 - 10:13 PM PDT  
> On July 19, 2005 - 3:34 AM PDT jross3 wrote:

>
> Not to forget that Snape is an evil, mudering bastard! But I, like IronS, am prone to overthink these things, so I must still think that Snape is a good guy in the end....

I have to admit I was getting pretty sick of Harry always distrusting Snape just cause he didn't like him when it was made clear in the first book he was a red herring. Chapter two surprised my by introducing the possibility he is evil but ... I'm not buying it.

>But it's possible that that's what Snape was arguing with him about that one night, where Snape had already agreed to do something he threatened not to go through with (but at the same time, it could be that Dumbledore had ordered him to take the Unbreakable Vow (to protect Snape's position and therefore all their intelligence-gathering network...?) and Snape was threatening to refuse to break it, which would cause him to die...). It could also explain why Dumbledore pleaded with Snape before snape killed him ("You have to! It's vitally important for reasons that will not be revealed yet!")

Hmm, I hadn't considered that but I think you are right. I figured he took the Unbreakable Vow because he saw no way out when Nymphomania or whatever Draco's mothers name is (yes, I know, Narcissa) confronted him point blank (which is rather unlikely for one as sly as him if he *really* didn't want to do it). Then I figured he killed Dumbledore because he had no chose or die himself but if he were *really* the good guy I think he is he'd have hesitated or died himself or done some huge heroic rescuing Draco and putting the whole thing off. Your idea that Dumbledore ordered Snape to take the oath is a reasonable one. But maybe when Snape took the oath neither Dumbledore nor Snape know what it involved (or Snape figured he'd protect Malfoy from ever being in a possision to fulfill it and he, Snape, would only have to do "the task" for Malfoy if he came to harm and was unable to complete it but if he kept Malfoy from ever being in a position to do it at all Snape wouldn't have to) or neither knew at the time it had come the Oath time.

Anyway, the oath did give a reason that it's Snape *had* to kill.


> I'd like to think Snape was a good guy. I really would.
> Reasons for doubt, I'm sure, are more obvious than my reasons for hope.

Snapes may just be a complex character. He is on the good side but maybe he really, truly, does, hate Harry and James. (The only scene we ever saw of James he was a bit of a jerk and a bully.) He didn't kill Harry when he was wandless and defensless right after he had killed Dumbledore wandless and defenseless, but he was really pissed (as I'd be if I just did something horrible with no chose and the dumb brat I hate but swore to protect is casting allegations at me.) Also when Dumbledore silently froze Harry when Malfoy showed up there was plenty of time for him to unfreeze Harry before Malfoy disarmed him.

> And what do you suppose came of Snape revealing himself as the Half-Blood Prince? It seemed awfully odd for him to declare something like that at soch a time.

That was awkwardly done. But the half-blood prince's identity had to be revealed *sometime*. They didn't really get into the aftermath of that revelation as they could have.


>
> Now, on the subject of "other books".... any theories? I suppose it would greatly depend on the sort of story/ending we find in Book 7....
> ---------------------------------

Beats me. But maybe she's tired of these books and she certainly doesn't need the money.

IronS
post #166  on July 20, 2005 - 12:21 PM PDT  
> On July 19, 2005 - 7:50 PM PDT woozy wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> If the former, which isn't much, warrants half a dozen :P's, than the latter, which is quite a bit more, surely warrants a peek or two down your icon's blouse kind word or two.
>
> ---------------------------------

My Nancy icon is wearing a t-shirt so you can't peek anyway. :P

However, here are some "kind" words:

Main Entry: kind
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: good
Synonyms: affectionate, all heart, altruistic, amiable, amicable, beneficent, benevolent, benign, big, bleeding heart, bounteous, charitable, clement, compassionate, congenial, considerate, cordial, courteous, eleemosynary, friendly, generous, gentle, good-hearted, gracious, humane, humanitarian, indulgent, kind-hearted, kindly, lenient, loving, mild, neighborly, obliging, old softie, philanthropic, propitious, softhearted, sympathetic, tender-hearted, thoughtful, tolerant, understanding

I'm not sure how many of these describe you though... ;P
woozy
post #167  on July 20, 2005 - 3:55 PM PDT  
> I'm not sure how many of these describe you though... ;P
> ---------------------------------

Man! For the niftiest person on these boards and the one person on these boards that I like the most, you sure have a mean streak sometimes.


> Main Entry: kind
> Part of Speech: adjective
> Definition: good fits
> Synonyms: affectionate,fits
all heart,fits
altruistic,hmmmm...somewhat
amiable,fits
amicablefits
beneficentfits
benevolent,hmmm... not really
benign,nope!
bigfits
bleeding heart,not really
bounteous,uh, not sure
charitable, yeah, kinda I did offer to help you move and I would have.
clement, fits
compassionate, definately fits
congenialfits
consideratefits
cordial, fits
courteous, when it counts. My joking is only joking
eleemosynary,huh???
friendly, fits
generous, fits
gentle, fits
good-hearted,definately fits
gracious, well ... how important is grace any way... and I was born on a Tuesday...
humanefits
humanitarian, not since my college days
indulgent,fits
kind-hearted,fits
kindly,well my sense of humor belies this ...
lenient,ha! totally fits. Just ask the parents of any kids I look after!
loving,well, not really... I feel kind of bad about that
mild,never online! but always in person
neighborly,nope
obliging,nope
old softie,heck yeah!
philanthropic,no, guess not
propitious,mmmmm, no
softhearted,fits
sympathetic,fits
tender-hearted,fits
thoughtful,uh, it's not my fault I'm stupid and clumsy
tolerant,erp! no...
understanding yeah, unless I'm confused (which I often am)
>


IronS
post #168  on July 20, 2005 - 9:15 PM PDT  
> On July 20, 2005 - 3:55 PM PDT woozy wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Man! For the niftiest person on these boards and the one person on these boards that I like the most, you sure have a mean streak sometimes.
>

Hey, you're not exactly Mr. Unwavering Stability yourself. :P
woozy
post #169  on July 20, 2005 - 9:30 PM PDT  
> Hey, you're not exactly Mr. Unwavering Stability yourself. :P
> ---------------------------------

I'm not! But ... I thought I was perfect.... *gasp*

I'm truly sorry about anything mean you ever thought I did and rest assure anything that was mean (to you) was only teasing out of utmost affection.

BTW I'm 12% through Inu Yasha. I'd tease you and say that alone proves my dedication to you but Inu Yasha is not without its charms. Not sure I can put up with 29 more discs but ... I'll try. For your sake.

IronS
post #170  on July 20, 2005 - 9:33 PM PDT  
Okay, back to Harry Potter. It annoys me to find typos in the book. I mean, sure, they had to get the book ready quickly, but I would think that with such an important volume (6.9 million sold in the US on the first day alone according to the SF Chronicle) somebody could have proofread it better. Well, given the sheer number of words, I suppose getting a few wrong is not that horrendous. The punctuation is a bit iffy at times, too; on a few occasions I think a semicolon would have been better than a comma.

Given how this one ended, I'm interested to see how many pages are in the next one.
IronS
post #171  on July 20, 2005 - 9:36 PM PDT  
> On July 20, 2005 - 9:30 PM PDT woozy wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> I'm truly sorry about anything mean you ever thought I did and rest assure anything that was mean (to you) was only teasing out of utmost affection.
>

Well, okay, I guess...

> BTW I'm 12% through Inu Yasha. I'd tease you and say that alone proves my dedication to you but Inu Yasha is not without its charms. Not sure I can put up with 29 more discs but ... I'll try. For your sake.
>

Notice I didn't include the three (so far) Inu Yasha movies? Consider yourself lucky.
woozy
post #172  on July 20, 2005 - 10:26 PM PDT  
> On July 20, 2005 - 9:33 PM PDT IronS wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Okay, back to Harry Potter. It annoys me to find typos in the book.

Yeah, I noticed that too.

**Spoiler for page 20
Fooey! All this speculation about who dies and it's a stupid fox!

**Spoiler for page 213
Fooey! All this speculation about who dies and it's Voldemort's mother in the past. fooey.

**Spoiler for page 470
Fooey! All this speculation about who dies and it's Hagrids Giant Spider, Aragog. Um, what did he die of anyway?

**Spoiler for real
Fooey! All this speculation about who dies and it's Dumbledore. Well, that *is* the actual death. But wasn't all the bets on him anyway?







> On July 20, 2005 - 9:36 PM PDT IronS wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > On July 20, 2005 - 9:30 PM PDT woozy wrote:
> > ---------------------------------
> > I'm truly sorry about anything mean you ever thought I did and rest assure anything that was mean (to you) was only teasing out of utmost affection.
> >
>
> Well, okay, I guess...
>

*snurf* I guess I really *was* mean! *sniff* I'm sorry, I really never meant to be.

>
> Notice I didn't include the three (so far) Inu Yasha movies? Consider yourself lucky.
> ---------------------------------

Oh, I thought you had! and I was counting them. Okay I'm 13 1/3% through.

IronS
post #173  on July 21, 2005 - 11:30 PM PDT  
> On July 20, 2005 - 10:26 PM PDT woozy wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > Notice I didn't include the three (so far) Inu Yasha movies? Consider yourself lucky.
> > ---------------------------------
>
> Oh, I thought you had! and I was counting them. Okay I'm 13 1/3% through.
>

The movies have a different drawing style than the series and I don't like them as much (they made all the faces more angular and thinner). The second movie does have one scene that should be seen, but that's about it.

All I know is that wearing pink and feeding avocado to a baby are mutually exclusive or at least they should be.

So, do we have to wait until tomorrow night to discuss the book?
woozy
post #174  on July 22, 2005 - 9:03 AM PDT  
> All I know is that wearing pink and feeding avocado to a baby are mutually exclusive or at least they should be.
>

Cute. What brings that on.

> So, do we have to wait until tomorrow night to discuss the book?


*sigh* I'm not a policeman. We can discuss the book anytime we want. I just think for the time being we should somehow indicate early in our posts we'll be discussing details.

Okay, the book. I can't help but divide the set into two groups of the first three and the second three. Of the last three, I definitely think the sixth book it the best. It's very tightly written, "the death" isn't gratuitous (it would have been if this wasn't the penultimate book of the series leading directly to the climax) as the last two were. It's not very action packed and the revelations of Voldemont's past weren't as psychologically revealing as they were obviously intended to be, but the last two books seemed to meander chaotically as the last two did.

Okay, I just figured why I divide the books in two sets. The first three books dealt with specific mysteries with Voldemont in the background. The sorcerer's stone dealt with introducing the concept, a plot, and the mystery of the stone. The second was a mystery about the opening of the secret chamber. The third about Prisoner of Azkaban. However, and I'm sure it was intentional, in the middle of the seven volume story arch Voldemont moves to the forefront ... and then what. He's a villian and a bad guy but there isn't much for him to do except sit back be evil and wait for the final showdown in book seven. There are three books he has to go through before thene. Books 4 and 5, to me, just seemed to a bunch of stuff happening to be revealed to have something to do with Voldemont growing power. I liked how they revealed more of the wizarding world and its politics (I especially liked the post-voldemont Macarthyesque death-eaters huntdown of the Goblet of Fire) and how the fight against Voldemont gained support (rather than just Harry acting on his own) but for the most part the were just passing time. This latest is still just passing time but as the lead up to the climax it had a definite destination in mind.

IronS
post #175  on July 22, 2005 - 5:25 PM PDT  
> On July 22, 2005 - 9:03 AM PDT woozy wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > All I know is that wearing pink and feeding avocado to a baby are mutually exclusive or at least they should be.
> >
>
> Cute. What brings that on.
>

I was feeding a baby yesterday afternoon and ended up with smears of green avocado on my pink shirt. Heck, if you were at the farmer's market yesterday, you would have seen me and the tyke in question.
woozy
post #176  on July 22, 2005 - 6:31 PM PDT  
> I was feeding a baby yesterday afternoon and ended up with smears of green avocado on my pink shirt. Heck, if you were at the farmer's market yesterday, you would have seen me and the tyke in question.
> ---------------------------------


*sigh* I'd have liked that. But I'm turning into an agrophobic crazy old cat man... Drop me a note next time you'll be going and I'll see if I can meet up with you.

So, what did you think of the 6th Harry Potter book? On a scale of 1 to 6 how did it rank to you compared to the other books.

Guess my order of the books so far is:

1. Chamber of secrets
2. Prisoner of Azkaban
3. Sorceror's stone
4. Half-blood prince
5. Goblet of Fire
6. Order of the Phoenix

Well, actually I'm not that firm on the order. 1 fluctuates tween Chamber and Prisoner and half-blood fluctuates between 2 and 4 (but probably 4).
IronS
post #177  on July 23, 2005 - 11:25 AM PDT  
I'm not sure what my favorite Harry Potter book is. I've been debating this with myself for a while since I want to listen to Stephen Fry's reading of the book so I have to buy one due to the fact that all American readings are done by Jim Dale. But which one? Hm....

All I know is that I shouldn't listen to Tim Curry's reading of any of the "A Series of Unfortunate Events" books on tape; it's way too creepy for my taste. *shivers* (and, of course, there's "Grendel", read by George Guidall, which depressed me so much that my friends worried about me)
IronS
post #178  on July 23, 2005 - 11:48 AM PDT  
Now that the book's been out for a week, well.. SPOILER SPOILER, okay?

If Ron and Hermione go off with Harry to search for Horcruxes, are they going to find them all during the summer? As I recall, Hermione is slated to be Best Girl during her last year at Hogwarts. How can that be if she's skipping the year to be with Ron and Harry?

I suppose the futility of Dumbledore's suffering prior to his death (the potion he had to drink to get at the locket just to find out that the locket is fake) is to establish the presence of a previous Horcrux searcher, R.A.B. (Regulus Black perhaps), who may have died by this time. A little unlooked for help for Harry? One on hand it's good that Harry is not the only Horcrux seeker around, but this means that whichever Horcrux Harry finds (or thinks he's found) may not be a real one and all the pain and trials he goes through will be for nothing (like Dumbledore's efforts for the locket). Also, we just have R.A.B.'s intention of destroying the locket; we don't have any concrete evidence that he did. It's not easy to do this as evidenced by Dumbledore's hand. R.A.B. could have died in the attempt.

I almost wished that there was more action in this one. Sure, it explains a lot about Tom Riddle/Voldemort, but it's almost like having Harry and Dumbledore watching TV. Also, I do get the feeling that Harry and Ron should listen to Hermione more often; she is the brains of the outfit. Ron is also something of a pain; like Luna said, he can be a bit unkind. Boy, Harry and Ron are acting like real teenage boys. I can tell because I want to whack them up the side of their heads now and then. :)
IronS
post #179  on July 23, 2005 - 12:06 PM PDT  
> On July 22, 2005 - 6:31 PM PDT woozy wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> *sigh* I'd have liked that. But I'm turning into an agrophobic crazy old cat man... Drop me a note next time you'll be going and I'll see if I can meet up with you.
>

Well, I sure don't want to push you out of your comfort zone. :)

I'm going out for tea later, but I'm sure you'd prefer your cat, your house and your pajamas.
IronS
post #180  on July 23, 2005 - 10:46 PM PDT  
> On July 23, 2005 - 12:06 PM PDT IronS wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > On July 22, 2005 - 6:31 PM PDT woozy wrote:
> > ---------------------------------
> > *sigh* I'd have liked that. But I'm turning into an agrophobic crazy old cat man... Drop me a note next time you'll be going and I'll see if I can meet up with you.
> >
>
> Well, I sure don't want to push you out of your comfort zone. :)
>
> I'm going out for tea later, but I'm sure you'd prefer your cat, your house and your pajamas.
> ---------------------------------

See, I did ask, but you didn't reply so there!
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