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561

The Manga Experience(long)
Topic by: Jestahjestiron
Posted: November 22, 2004 - 3:53 PM PST
Last Reply: February 4, 2005 - 2:43 PM PST

page  1  2  3      prev | next
author topic: The Manga Experience(long)
Jestahjestiron
post #1  on November 22, 2004 - 3:53 PM PST  
Hi Guys,

Being an Anime fan, it has opened my eyes to a lot of things like the Japanese culture, and that animation in general doesn't have to be for kids and can have complex/adult themes and characters. It has also opened my eyes to the world of Manga. Let's face it most Animes come from Manga, and if your not reading Manga then your missing a lot.

I used to be a comic book (Marvel) fan as a kid, but as the stories continued the "monster of the week" theme with little or no continuity due to the characters "living forever" or dying multiple times (only to come back alive again each time)or use the same uninspired plotlines I gradually lost interest in comics and Superheroes in general.

I was exposed to manga due to the Naruto anime. The site in which I got the Naruto anime online also offered scantalations (which are Manga translated into English).

I was floored! Kishimoto is a genius! he sparked my curiosity of Manga. I had learned that most of the Animes I've seen and heard came from Manga, and that most Animes wouldn't have been made today if it wasn't for the popularity of it's Manga form.

Eventually I sought out other mangas/manghwas like Death Note, Midori No Hibi, Shaman King, Beck Mongolian Chop Squad, TryTryTry! (Yotsuba!), Bleach, and Fullmetal Alchemist in scantalation form. I enjoyed the fact that there is real continuity in the stories that I read, that there is mostly a beginning and end, and that they weren't all about dopes in superhero costumes saying stupid one-liners.

I then discovered that most of the titles I mentioned were in graphic novel form or "tonkabons"(sp). So I went to check out the Naruto manga at my local bookstore and boy was I surprised.

The Naruto english adaptation was horrid!. The scantalations that I read from the internet had glaring differences. The person who was in charge of the English adaptation overly Americanized it, and gave Naruto southern-like, cowboy like catch phrases and describes what happens story in weird colloquiums: like "I don't know him from Adam" and "Old Doggy Brows Probably gets some kind of Super-Duper Extra Special Training, Day After Day".

I really was turned off by this adaptation, and wanted to support Kishomoto directly so I ended up ordering the Japanese Mangas online instead from sites like YesAsia.
I may not understand what their saying, but I always have the Naruto mangas in my computer as references.

I then compared the Bleach English adaptation to the scantalations I found on the internet and noticed no severe changes, unlike the Naruto English adaptation.

Sufficed to say that not all English adaptations are equal, so I bought all Bleach Volumes and will buy all the future voumes. I also bought this cool manga from Dark Horse called "Lone Wolf and Cub" or Kozure Okami by Kazou Koike and Goseki Kojima.

I'm hoping that the future English adaptations for Midori No Hibi and Fullmetal Alchemist will be faithful to their originals and not severely altered like the Naruto Manga.

I recently saw a few episodes of One Piece online (episodes 116+) and was hooked to the series. I couldn't find the bittorrents of the old episodes online to catch up to the story, and I've been thinking of buying the tonkabons/manga, but I'm unsure how faithful the English adaptation is to the original manga. If anyone keeps up with the One piece manga, and knows if the English Adaptation is faithful and isn't too severely altered lemme know!

Anyway, this is my Manga Experience, and I mean no offense to the hardcore comic fans in the forums.
Catullus
post #2  on November 22, 2004 - 4:32 PM PST  
Well I like manga however

I don't have time
1) downloading anime
2) working
3) watching anime or movies or the occasional football game
4) playing video games (im a gamer)
5) the little time I spend hanging out with real people
6) sleeping
7) internet browsing/chatting

after that I just don't have any free time for manga except for the very few exceptional ones that the anime really grabbed me.

:( I have too many hobbies that I don't have time for all of them as is, its kind of sad for me.
DBooher
post #3  on November 22, 2004 - 5:19 PM PST  
Yes, most times they make people from Osaka and similiar regions too country: as in Howdy Folks country. It is quite irritating.
Any how,
Welcome to the world of otakuism. Find a seat where available. ^_^
hamano
post #4  on November 22, 2004 - 5:23 PM PST  
Well, I have known people to actually take Japanese lessons in the hope of someday being able to read manga in the original text... that's how seriously addicted they are (ahem.... DBooher, AFleming, where are you?). Personally, I think even with good translations, American publishers ought to add footnotes on cultural and historical points that the American readers might not know about. That way they could make the dialogue more "American" and conversational without sacrificing the richness.

It's really great, though, that you've bought the Japanese comics in their original form. I recently read School Rumble, a really good manga I think, in scanned form that I found on-line... so you're a more dedicated fan than I am. I also read the scanslations, which were a good effort but flawed (they even got some of the characters' names wrong...) The subtitles on the fansubs of the anime version of this excellently funny show is also quite flawed.

It's too bad scanslations and fansubs don't exist in forms where they can be corrected by a native speaker like me who stumbles upon them.

Keep reading them manga! There are very few comics in the West that can express youthful longing or poignant humanism as well. On the other hand, the Japanese don't have something quite as minimalist funny as The Far Side...
llibby
post #5  on November 22, 2004 - 6:05 PM PST  
i also am a big fan of manga. because unlike cat i have alot of spare time. it's good break time reading.
i probably spend more on manga these days then actual anime (thank you greencine). i've only read a few scanalations, mostly because i don't usually hear about new manga till it is already out stateside or just about out. it is frustrating when i have read them though because a lot of scanalations are poorly translated (well i don't know if it is poorly translated, or if it just suffers from horrible english), and i sometimes miss some sublties of the story. of course if darkhorse stops releasing berserk, i am going to be forced to read scanalations.
i haven't run into too many really bad fansubs (though i haven't watched a whole lot yet), infact i really like the fansubs i had for samurai champloo, in that they often had notes on stuff a non native may not catch. i completely agree with hamano in that i wish more manga had notes on stuff in them. i have also considered learning the language (someone was even supposed to put me in contact with a tutor, but that never happened :( ).
i think there was a point somewhere in there..........
hamano
post #6  on November 22, 2004 - 6:16 PM PST  
> On November 22, 2004 - 6:05 PM PST llibby wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> i haven't run into too many really bad fansubs (though i haven't watched a whole lot yet), infact i really like the fansubs i had for samurai champloo, in that they often had notes on stuff a non native may not catch. >>i completely agree with hamano<<* in that i wish more manga had notes on stuff in them. i have also considered learning the language (someone was even supposed to put me in contact with a tutor, but that never happened :( ).
> i think there was a point somewhere in there..........
> ---------------------------------

* the point!
^_^
jross3
post #7  on November 22, 2004 - 6:54 PM PST  
a manga topic... how long I've waited, indeed!
I could and probably will rant, but I'll restrain myself for now. (CLAMP!!! CLAMP!!! Hooray for CLAMP!!!)

Ahem.

WELL, to answer your question, the English translation of One Piece is not glaringly faked. On the other hand, I haven't compared it to any scanlations; none the less, the dialogue seems to match the characters, for the most part. I seriously doubt that it's entirely authentic, though.

Poor Cat, you're missing so much! If you only read animes that were eventually made into great, top-notch animes, you are going in the wrong direction - and I know that's very opinionated, but lots of quality manga gets botched to a degree when animated (Chobits, for example). Not to mention all the great manga that never gets animated - and great, great Korean titles that I have almost no info on at all!
(deep breath)
But that's your deal. You're probably just not a book person - I, on the other hand, have always been a book person, much more than I ever was a movie person or a TV person, although my anime addiction today rivals the height of my book craze. I would be hard pressed to guess which is stronger, but since manga feeds both addictions I end up reading quite a bit of it. .

(slow exhale)

See? I'm not ranting yet.

I read a book related to the "Lone Wolf and Cub" you mentioned, "Samurai Executioner". Very interesting book. Probably the most serious Samurai manga I've ever read. It was unbelievably dull, but interesting none the less.


J-R LOVES these mangas - currently in progress!
1. Faeries' Landing (You Hyun via Tokyopop)
2. Tsubasa (Clamp via Del Rey)
3. xxxholic (Clamp via Del Rey)
4. The Wallflower (someone or other with a very good but not too memorable name, by way of Del Rey)
And so many others! I'm following at least a dozen series in progress, including Berserk, Hellsing (awesome!), Legal Drug, Full Metal panic, and quite a few others. My manga shelf is full to the brim, and I've already had to take two (full!) milk crates of older books off of it to make room. For a time, a month or two ago, I was buying manga faster than I could read it! (that's not a good idea, by the way). I'm still working off the stockpile I built up, which is mostly made of series I got into late and am catching up on (Ceres, Ranma 1/2 (forgive me, MegaDeus, for I have read flopped manga *sob*), Fruits Basket, and so on...). ...
...
Is this turning into a rant? It is. Well, before I go off recomending random titles, I'll carefully select a few in particular:

Faeries' Landing: Very great manga (or manhua? I haven't seen the Korean word in quite a while (since they stopped publishing Ragnarok, damn Tokyopop)). Awesome artwork, very very nice. What can I say? It's very much a Ceres-legend story, but I just find myself looking forward to each new volume very eagerly!

The Wallflower: I might not have checked it out if not for a strong endorsement in Newtype magazine. I'm glad I did! The premise isn't really much for me (four young men must give a withdrawn and ghastly girl (who initially looks like Sadako from Ringu) a magical makeover... "riiiight," I said, "sounds greeeeaaat."), but once I read it I was very impressed by the characters and interactions. Very good!

Now, I'll gracefully exit before I rant on... Clamp, shojo manga, reasons Cat should read more manga, or anything like that. I will rant extensively in a future post.
llibby
post #8  on November 22, 2004 - 7:16 PM PST  
that reminds me, i have the first xxxholic, and here i went out and bought a couple more books today thinking i had finally caught up.
the packaging of legal drug is really nice. the first volume is very interesting. i wonder how the rest of the series will turn out ^_^
hamano
post #9  on November 22, 2004 - 7:38 PM PST  
> On November 22, 2004 - 6:54 PM PST jross3 wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> J-R LOVES these mangas - currently in progress!
> 1. Faeries' Landing (You Hyun via Tokyopop)
> 2. Tsubasa (Clamp via Del Rey)
> 3. xxxholic (Clamp via Del Rey)
> 4. The Wallflower (someone or other with a very good but not too memorable name, by way of Del Rey)

Oh, you're right in tune with Mao-chan (almost 9 years old) jross3! She's really into Tsubasa and xxxholic, and owns all of the ones published so far. She's got the beautiful Cardcaptor Sakura Box Set, too. She recommends Pet Shop of Horrors if you haven't read it yet... a bit of naughty language in the English version, but she's doing a good job of pretending not to notice.
Jestahjestiron
post #10  on November 22, 2004 - 9:47 PM PST  
> J-R LOVES these mangas - currently in progress!
> 1. Faeries' Landing (You Hyun via Tokyopop)
> 2. Tsubasa (Clamp via Del Rey)
> 3. xxxholic (Clamp via Del Rey)
> 4. The Wallflower (someone or other with a very good but not too memorable name, by way of Del Rey)
> And so many others! I'm following at least a dozen series in progress, including Berserk, Hellsing (awesome!), Legal Drug, Full Metal panic, and quite a few others. My manga shelf is full to the brim, and I've already had to take two (full!) milk crates of older books off of it to make room. For a time, a month or two ago, I was buying manga faster than I could read it! (that's not a good idea, by the way). I'm still working off the stockpile I built up, which is mostly made of series I got into late and am catching up on (Ceres, Ranma 1/2 (forgive me, MegaDeus, for I have read flopped manga *sob*), Fruits Basket, and so on...). ...
> ...
> Is this turning into a rant? It is. Well, before I go off recomending random titles, I'll carefully select a few in particular:
>
> Faeries' Landing: Very great manga (or manhua? I haven't seen the Korean word in quite a while (since they stopped publishing Ragnarok, damn Tokyopop)). Awesome artwork, very very nice. What can I say? It's very much a Ceres-legend story, but I just find myself looking forward to each new volume very eagerly!
>
> The Wallflower: I might not have checked it out if not for a strong endorsement in Newtype magazine. I'm glad I did! The premise isn't really much for me (four young men must give a withdrawn and ghastly girl (who initially looks like Sadako from Ringu) a magical makeover... "riiiight," I said, "sounds greeeeaaat."), but once I read it I was very impressed by the characters and interactions. Very good!
>
> Now, I'll gracefully exit before I rant on... Clamp, shojo manga, reasons Cat should read more manga, or anything like that. I will rant extensively in a future post.
> ---------------------------------

Wow, that sure is a lot of shoujo(girl) manga titles. I have to admit, I haven't really ventured into that spectrum of mangadom, except for TrytryTry! (Yotsuba) scantalations, if that counts.

I've been meaning to check out Fruits Basket manga by Tokyopop when it catches up to where the Anime ended. I'm really curious about what happens after the Tohru/Akito incident.

I really want to buy a grey Samue(sp)/Kimbe(sp)/Kimono(sp)/whatever like what Shigure wears. It looks so awesome and comfortable.

I also have my eye on is Azumunga Daioh(sp). I plan on checking out that manga once I receive the last volume of the anime from GC.

As far as shonen(young man manga) goes, I plan on checking out the GTO mangas after I finish seeing the last disc from GC. The Anime ends at the school trip episode, and I intend to check out what happens after that in the manga. I hear that Onizuka gets a few more students, one of them a gaijin (foreigner).

You guys should check out "Death Note" (not licensed, under scantalations). It's the most bizarre, unique, intellectually stimulating, philosphically/ethically challenging manga that I've read online.

It's about a teenager who gets a notebook from a Shinigami (Death God). Whose ever name he writes down in that notebook dies of a heart attack 2 hours later or in a way of his choosing should he specify.

In the first day he kills roughly 90-100 japanese criminals after watching the japanese version of "America's most wanted". The people of Japan are so grateful they call the unknown person who has caused all these deaths "Kira". Doing so, has put him under the watchful investigative eye of a super-agent that goes under the pseudonym "L".
jross3
post #11  on November 22, 2004 - 11:09 PM PST  
> On November 22, 2004 - 7:38 PM PST hamano wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Oh, you're right in tune with Mao-chan (almost 9 years old) jross3!

I'm gonna take that in the best way possible - meaning, your daughter is very mature for her age and has great taste in manga. Never mind that I'm more than twice her age and we like the same stuff.... 'course, my own nephew is just over half HER age and likes a lot of the things I do (he's even decided to grow his hair out like mine, to his parents' dismay :-)

> She recommends Pet Shop of Horrors if you haven't read it yet... a bit of naughty language in the English version, but she's doing a good job of pretending not to notice.

Oh, I just abhor naughty language! I have been meaning to give that a look, though.... I've heard of it before, but I never really gave it a look. Now, on her well-saged advice, I'll be sure to look for a vol. 1 next time I go to the bookstore.
How about Desert Coral? Vol. 3 is due out soon, and I'm pretty impressed so far.

ranting...
Jestah, is there something wrong with shojo manga? (that's rhetorical - the answer is "no")
Shojo manga is full of valuable content that shonen manga sorely lacks most of the time - quality characterization and development of relationships and well-fleshed-out interactions and reactions. That's not to say that the shonen titles are lessened for missing these things - they make up for them in other ways, and to say that shonen manga sucks without these principles is idiotic, so I won't do that. Shounen manga does tend to exagerate things, however; for example, in
Warriors of Tao the main boy-girl relationship develops quickly (instantly, in fact, yet it holds strong through the first half of the manga even though they only really see eachother once in the whole two volumes)... and many other cross-gender relations are rather unrealistic as well. On the other hand, Rumiko Takahashi really hilights the slow as a glacier pace a really strong relationship often requires to form (take note: Rumiko's work often has shojo romance and shonen action, and tends to be incredibly popular. What a bizarre coincidence!). Another shonen title, Excel Saga, shows the female leads utterly devoted to the male lead.... for no clear reason (except Illpilazzo's amazing charisma, and their own obvious insanity).

Back to business, Jestah-kun seems to like a lot of Shounen Jump mangas. I, too, enjoy many of these - especially Bleach, Shaman King, and Rurouni Kenshin. I got into Hikaru no Go, too, and so far it seems pretty good. I was really surprised by the art quality of YuYu Hakusho when I first picked it up - until that time, I had largely avoided SJ mangas.
Gaghrt! My copy of Shaman King vol. 4 is messed up! It's missing the last two chapters. Horrible! That's just utterly inexcusable! I've also bought malfunscioned copies of Priest and Ranma 1/2, so so far the only publishers with a clean production record are Dark Horse and the newbie, Del Rey. It's nice to have some really good publishers making manga. Plus, Del Rey includes some really good and helpful extras, like translator's notes - plus they do very little "americanization" like switching cultural references. I wonder if they will keep lisencing new titles? I hope so, they have the best books, really they do.
As a side note, the author of The Wallflower (Yamatonadeshiko Shichihenge) is the lovely (I assume) and talented (clearly) Tomoko Hayakawa. Vol. 2 is due out 12/28, folks, so get #1 today!
Phiraxis
post #12  on November 23, 2004 - 3:07 AM PST  
Just skiming through this thread is overwhelming my fragile brain @_@

Where (or how) exactly does one find manga "scanslations"? As if the quotation marks don't give it away, I'm an anime-noob (aninoob for short?) and I'm hopelessly lost. Is there some kind of secret, underground anime-mafia network that I'm not aware of? Some ritual I must perform? I know, they probably shoot anime-noobs on site, but now I'm really curious. About the only online manga I find end up being hentai-ish and though they are... interesting... I can't help but wonder what I'm missing out on.

Please forgive me if I'm butchering terms here. It's 3 in the morning and I'm running on S-Starbucks f-f-fuel and I'm contemplating watching the final episode of Nadesico (hmm... suddenly I'm thinking of crackers). I tend to avoid watching the finale of a series I like... erm, what was I talking about?
hamano
post #13  on November 23, 2004 - 3:55 AM PST  
hamano-sensei springs into action...


> On November 23, 2004 - 3:07 AM PST Phiraxis wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Where (or how) exactly does one find manga "scanslations"?
About the only online manga I find end up being hentai-ish and though they are... interesting... I can't help but wonder what I'm missing out on.

If you like hentai go HERE.... it's mostly RAW not scanslated, but hey, who needs English dialogue for these! It's obvious what's going on.

This site has lots of news about both officially published and scanslated manga. Including extensive indices of TITLES and SCANSLATORS+Websites.

These links will take you to a place like Manga Inc, which was working on School Rumble. Most of these scanslators have links to other scanslators. Of course it's easy to go on manga forums and find out about scanslations, but I don't have that much time... reading the forum here already takes up too much!

Good luck!
hamano
post #14  on November 23, 2004 - 4:01 AM PST  
> On November 23, 2004 - 3:55 AM PST hamano wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> hamano-sensei springs into action...
> If you like hentai go HERE.... it's mostly RAW not scanslated, but hey, who needs English dialogue for these! It's obvious what's going on.

Wait! If you really DO have a fragile brain, or you're under 18 ;-) DON'T go there! If you like all the anime and manga that are set in Japanese high schools and tell the stories of sweet first romances or sports and stuff, DON'T look at Stringent... DON'T. You will be hopelessly twisted by this Japanese perversity.
DBooher
post #15  on November 23, 2004 - 10:52 AM PST  
The Wallflower! The Wallflower!!!

I'm reading that one right now too! It's so funny!!! I just had to chime in about that. ^_^

Jestahjestiron
post #16  on November 23, 2004 - 11:00 AM PST  
> Jestah, is there something wrong with shojo manga? (that's rhetorical - the answer is "no")

Hehe, not at all I enjoy some like TryTryTry! (Yotsuba) and Beck Mongolian Chop Squad.

It was just surprising seeing all those titles, since I've never heard of them. I'll look into them, but I'm not sure I'll be into them since I'm not the target demographic. What's really important to me is a good story, and manga has a lot of that, so I try to keep an open mind when reading manga.


> Gaghrt! My copy of Shaman King vol. 4 is messed up! It's missing the last two chapters. Horrible! That's just utterly inexcusable! I've also bought malfunscioned copies of Priest and Ranma 1/2, so so far the only publishers with a clean production record are Dark Horse and the newbie, Del Rey. It's nice to have some really good publishers making manga. Plus, Del Rey includes some really good and helpful extras, like translator's notes - plus they do very little "americanization" like switching cultural references. I wonder if they will keep lisencing new titles? I hope so, they have the best books, really they do.

I've heard of Dark Horse but not Del Ray. Infact I even have a Dark Horse manga that I'm reading right now, "Lone Wolf and Cub" by Kazuo Kouke & Goseki Kojima. I'm really happy with the translator/cultural notes.

I've been meaning to check out the Hellsing Manga from Dark Horse since I loved the Anime so much. It's a bit expensive though, $14 compared to the usual $7-$9 that other mangas cost.


> As a side note, the author of The Wallflower (Yamatonadeshiko Shichihenge) is the lovely (I assume) and talented (clearly) Tomoko Hayakawa. Vol. 2 is due out 12/28, folks, so get #1 today!


I remember reading a good review on The Wallflower, seems interesting, I'll check it out.

Jestahjestiron
post #17  on November 23, 2004 - 11:08 AM PST  
> Another shonen title, Excel Saga, shows the female leads utterly devoted to the male lead.... for no clear reason (except Illpilazzo's amazing charisma, and their own obvious insanity).


It's funny you mentioned Excel Saga, I just received Volume 1 from GC yesterday afternoon. The only thing that came to mind was the phrase "WTF".

I had read somewhere that halfway through the series the voice actress that played Excel's English version blew out her throat and was replaced. After seeing this it's no wonder why.

Even with the ADV cultural notes, a lot of things flew by me, which made for an awkward viewing experience. I was lukewarm toward the whole Anime..

There were things that I enjoyed: The Puchuus, and Menchi.

Jesus Christ Menchi is soo cute, especially when he's singing in the closing credits.

I have honestly never seen anything so cute in my life.

I genuinely enjoy spoofs, but Excel Saga totally flew by me(I'll keep a few volumes in my queue, to give it another try) ...but I really enjoyed Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi.
hamano
post #18  on November 23, 2004 - 11:24 AM PST  
> On November 23, 2004 - 11:00 AM PST Jestahjestiron wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > Jestah, is there something wrong with shojo manga? (that's rhetorical - the answer is "no")
>
> Hehe, not at all I enjoy some like TryTryTry! (Yotsuba) and Beck Mongolian Chop Squad.

Whoa! Hold on Jestah, you're Jesting, right? Both of those are shounen manga! jross is talking about real hardcore shoujo stuff, like this Wallflower thing.
Jestahjestiron
post #19  on November 23, 2004 - 11:37 AM PST  
> Whoa! Hold on Jestah, you're Jesting, right? Both of those are shounen manga! jross is talking about real hardcore shoujo stuff, like this Wallflower thing.

Erm, I'm not real sure about Beck Mongolian Chop Squad, but TryTryTry! (Yotsuba) is definitely a shoujo manga.

Check it out:

http://home.nc.rr.com/momotato/yotsubato.html

Oh yeah, for info on Beck Mongolian Chop Squad:

http://www.animenfo.com/animetitle,1484,daovhh,beck.html

I forgot where I found the scantalations. But all the volumes are complete, it's a great Manga/Anime that is about a Japanese rock band trying to make it in the U.S. Their original name was Beck, but since that name is taken here in the U.S., they opted for the name Mongolian Chop Squad.



hamano
post #20  on November 23, 2004 - 12:13 PM PST  
> On November 23, 2004 - 11:37 AM PST Jestahjestiron wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > Whoa! Hold on Jestah, you're Jesting, right? Both of those are shounen manga! jross is talking about real hardcore shoujo stuff, like this Wallflower thing.
>
> Erm, I'm not real sure about Beck Mongolian Chop Squad, but TryTryTry! (Yotsuba) is definitely a shoujo manga.
>
> Check it out:

I've already checked them out! You better look in your pants to make sure you've still got all the parts you think you're supposed to have.
^_^

BECK was serialized in Shounen JUMP. Yotsubato! is published in Dengeki Daioh, the same magazine that ran Azumanga Daioh. These are both WELL established Shounen comic magazines. BECK is coming out in anime form now... The fansubs are up to about Episode 6. You've been bamboozled...
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