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561

Random Nudity?
Topic by: Battie
Posted: June 15, 2005 - 2:24 PM PDT
Last Reply: August 10, 2005 - 4:46 PM PDT

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author topic: Random Nudity?
woozy
post #101  on July 11, 2005 - 5:04 PM PDT  
> No, it's their way to work out the excess calories before they indulge. We human do the same, except in the reverse order (movie -> dinner -> sex).
>
> ---------------------------------

The bonobo way is cheaper because you don't have to hire a baby sitter.

So where did dvyi get the idea about child molesting as humor?

Battie
post #102  on July 11, 2005 - 5:12 PM PDT  
> On July 11, 2005 - 5:00 PM PDT woozy wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Elves? Aliens? Dogs? I think the idea about probing and exploring and playing and visually displaying state of attractiveness have been long done. So what were these men and women and kitchen.
>

*sigh* Think Hilary Swank's Something They Come Back. Or was that Sometimes They Come Back...Again?

> > I've heard that before. Too bad we aren't descendents of bonobos. "Make love, not war," would've stuck!
> >
> Actually, many many scientists, including Frans De Waal and my own professor, Adrienne Zilmann, believe we are.
>

Piffle. I saw we're more like chimps. Violent lil devils, they are.

> This is where I throw up my hands and say "The heck with it. I'm bored. Let's rub genitals." The Bonobos have sex games. Lots and lots and lots of sex games. Mmm, that orange looks good, will you give me some if I rub you lightly? Sure, why not. Oh, look, is that your baby boy poking at those two adult females going at it? Yeah, he's just curious, maybe they'll teach him something, he loves to be touched. And of course, wow! looking at that great food makes me hard.
>
> So I have to sometimes wonder why somethings works so darn well for the bonobo fails us so miserably as humans and ... well, I have my theories.
>

I have theories, too. The aliens replaced your brains. Or maybe just part of them. ^_^

No, seriously...that's all a good idea. My theory: modesty. Is there a book that discusses the development of modesty, which seems to be so necessary to most cultures now? Even us Americans, skimpy clothing though we may wear, don't like nudity.

Ah...there is that one tribe in South America that consider everything communal property...including sex. I do wonder, after watching a special on the tribe, if one can only love one other person, or if it's perfectly natural to love several.

> No more than any other radical re-think the human race ideas.
>

I was kidding. ^_^
Battie
post #103  on July 11, 2005 - 5:30 PM PDT  
> On July 11, 2005 - 5:04 PM PDT woozy wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> The bonobo way is cheaper because you don't have to hire a baby sitter.
>

That reminds me of something I read in Explaining Hitler. I actually started that book at...oh...3 years ago? Maybe four. When I first started it, it was excrutiating getting through each page. Not because it was boring, but because the vocabulary just about knocked me over (and this was back when I had a 35 on the Reading section of the ACT and a 31 on the Writing--or whatever the sections were name). Anyway, I've finally gotten back into it to finish it, and find reading so simple. Rather shocking really. Good book, btw. (It discusses the theories and myths surrounding Hitler, largely the ones explaining why he was "evil," and why so many people seem to need them.)

Anyway, Ron Rosenbaum brings up a lot of sources, including one that suggested Hitler had witnessed the rape of his mother at the hands of his father, and this, at least partially, contributed to his later behavior. Dr. Kurth, researching the validity of the above claim, finds Freud's theory that a child witnessing his/her parents having sex could be damaging, only to also find research that says a great majority of people who have lived in poverty (now and in the past--which means most of the people who have lived and are now living), have witnessed just that. Furthermore, research suggests that children who spend their infancy in their parents bedroom are likely to derive comfort and strength from their parents' closeness.

So...in combination with my own childhood experiences, I don't really consider a child seeing consensual sex as a bad thing, as long as the act isn't INTENDED to include the child. Frankly, seeing my mother smooch (a very light term for what I sometimes saw, lol) on whoever was in her life at the time never did me any damage. (And before anyone says I have sexual issues, I can assure you I'm in perfect sexual and mental health!)

> So where did dvyi get the idea about child molesting as humor?
>

The tentacle-baby! I told you it was perverted in a bad way. >;)
woozy
post #104  on July 11, 2005 - 6:15 PM PDT  
> *sigh* Think Hilary Swank's Something They Come Back. Or was that Sometimes They Come Back...Again?
>

Vampires?

>
> Piffle. I saw we're more like chimps. Violent lil devils, they are.
>

Not nescessarily. Our cultures vary widely.

>
> No, seriously...that's all a good idea. My theory: modesty. Is there a book that discusses the development of modesty, which seems to be so necessary to most cultures now? Even us Americans, skimpy clothing though we may wear, don't like nudity.
>
I'm sure there are many. Don't forget American has puritanical underpinings (repressed by Christian standards) and that although Christians didn't invent constraint from physical or animal pleasures they certainly are one of the extreme cultures. Cultures with disperse food sources are more likely to be male dominated and cultures that acquire wealth have greater need for tracing familial lineage and are therefore more likely to be more sexually restrictive. There are odd side effects though, sexually promiscuious and open societies so as pre-venerial disease south pacific islanders often have gender separation where men and women almost never interact except sexually. *sigh*. In my opinion this is a bit like bonobo society.



> Ah...there is that one tribe in South America that consider everything communal property...including sex. I do wonder, after watching a special on the tribe, if one can only love one other person, or if it's perfectly natural to love several.
>

First have to decide if "love" exists and if so in what form. I also wonder if it differs from people to people. I think things are a gradient. Bonobos mainly engage in simple genital to genital rubbing or sex for food and not taken seriously. Actual bonds and social ties developement but the acquiring of them is a clear cut sweatheart/just friends distinction.

> That reminds me of something I read in Explaining Hitler. .. finds Freud's theory that a child witnessing his/her parents having sex could be damaging, ...research that says a great majority of people ...have witnessed just that. Furthermore, research suggests that children who spend their infancy in their parents bedroom are likely to derive comfort and strength from their parents' closeness.
>
> So...in combination with my own childhood experiences, I don't really consider a child seeing consensual sex as a bad thing, as long as the act isn't INTENDED to include the child.

Bonobos *do* involve children. The children like to poke the adults genitals while watching the G to G games and the adults like to touch the children's genitals.

I think it's a matter of culteral and societal context whether something is damaging or not. Trauma is damaging. Having your willie pulled regularly by your father is not traumatic if you are a bonobo. Having your willie pulled regularly by your father in the suburbs is *exceedingly* traumatic (especially if he threatens to whack you if you tell and your mother calls you filthy names for talking about it). I think seeing your parents having sex may or may not be traumatic based on the child's psyche in interpretting what he saw and what it meant. I also believe, although I haven't found any psychology to back this up, that extreme shame regardles of actual nature, can be traumatic as any abuse, if the child interprets it as extreme shame.


> > So where did dvyi get the idea about child molesting as humor?
> >
>
> The tentacle-baby! I told you it was perverted in a bad way. >;)
> ---------------------------------

It was? Why? Because the tentacle monster is a baby? Tentacle monsters have to be babies some time, don't they? And they aren't human, right?

shiori308
post #105  on July 11, 2005 - 8:24 PM PDT  
Too lazy to reply to every single comment so this is going to be bulk... apologies to those offended by its lack of personalism.

Woozy: The fact that you are not surprised by my youth offends me a tad. I consider myself a very mature person and the fact that few of my close friends are younger than thirty I would say that they would agree as well. Although I appreciate your attempts to compliment me otherwise I just wanted to say that. PS- I apologize if I come off as rude, had a few drinks and the Drunken Shiori alter-ego is creeping to the surface, normally I am a pushover and would have said nothing.

Which brings me to the next subject:
I do not get scary when I am drunk typically I am perfectly content with sitting in my corner of the bar enjoying my solitude. And if by "scary" you mean sexually crazed and on the loose because of my futile attempts at celibacy... well that's all these crazy Texans doing not me. But I would never go so far as to attack Battie in my hormonal inebriation, although I like her, I have always walked the straight and narrow.

And if one would like to explore human sexuality from a more distorted mind then one should rent Human Nature (that is if you can handle a little Charles Kaufman).



shiori308
post #106  on July 11, 2005 - 8:43 PM PDT  
Talking about bonobos makes me... I am just going to stop talking about instinctual animalistic sex because it is frying my brain. I think I am going to read a good book now instead or watch a violent movie perhaps.

If we are curious as to why the same behaviors do not work for humans as they do for these apes maybe it is because we are looking at the wrong animal. Isn't it the dolphin that uses the next largest brain capacity? Perhaps I am wrong though. I don't know... do female dolphins make male dolphins sleep outside of the reef when they spent the entire night frolicking behind giant commercial ships with their buddies.

woozy
post #107  on July 11, 2005 - 9:30 PM PDT  
> Woozy: The fact that you are not surprised by my youth offends me a tad.

Sorry. I just meant you were youthful and exuberant.

>I consider myself a very mature person and the fact that few of my close friends are younger than thirty I would say that they would agree as well.

I didn't say you weren't mature. You are. I just said I'm not surprised you are yong. You have a very ... young persons outlook. Not a bad thing.

*hmmm* when I first invented Cygnus Tygger I made her bratty and with no inhibitations (she's the one who wrote the story about the baby tentacle monster, not me) and she once told a joke about three little pigs in a bar telling sexist jokes and the punchline was they all died when cocktail waitress poisoned them. To my surprise, most of the men responded by wondering how a sweet innocent like Cygnus got so cynical. I had never considered Cygnus innocent. You are youthful in the same we Cygnus is innocent-- Though you are brilliant, outgoing, and utterly mature, and thouroughly knowledgable, you are exuberant and still excited about life.

Plus you icon is just soooooo darn cute!


> PS- I apologize if I come off as rude, had a few drinks and the Drunken Shiori alter-ego is creeping to the surface, normally I am a pushover and would have said nothing.
>
I wonder why you keep apologizing for being interesting. It's the boring who are rude and unpleasant.


> And if by "scary" you mean sexually crazed and on the loose because of my futile attempts at celibacy... well that's all these crazy Texans doing not me.

Well, nooooo that wasn't what I meant by scary. Can't speak for Battie though.


>But I would never go so far as to attack Battie in my hormonal inebriation, although I like her, I have always walked the straight and narrow.
>
Heh, heh. I only once "attacked" someone in a hormonal inebriation. It couldn't have been Battie because I don't think she had been born at that time and ... oh, crap, I just remembered the second time I attacked someone in an inebriated state and that was only 2 and a half years ago. But I'm pretty sure those are the only two times though.

> And if one would like to explore human sexuality from a more distorted mind then one should rent Human Nature (that is if you can handle a little Charles Kaufman).
>
Heh, great movie.


Battie
post #108  on July 12, 2005 - 8:00 AM PDT  
> On July 11, 2005 - 9:30 PM PDT woozy wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > And if by "scary" you mean sexually crazed and on the loose because of my futile attempts at celibacy... well that's all these crazy Texans doing not me.
>
> Well, nooooo that wasn't what I meant by scary. Can't speak for Battie though.
>

Good idea. While she may never attack me in a sexual manner...I still wouldn't trust an inebriated shiori. She'd do SOMETHING mean.

Now if I was a guy...

(Actually, people used to think I was a dude in chat rooms. It became rather offensive when someone would say, "You're not a chick, you liar. You're just trying to attract lesbians." My reply usually involved being straight and not seeing any lesbians around. ^_^

> Heh, heh. I only once "attacked" someone in a hormonal inebriation. It couldn't have been Battie because I don't think she had been born at that time and ... oh, crap, I just remembered the second time I attacked someone in an inebriated state and that was only 2 and a half years ago. But I'm pretty sure those are the only two times though.
>

Naughty, naughty! I've never been drunk. ^_^ I have had a number of friends and friends' friends get really huggy, though. >_>
woozy
post #109  on July 12, 2005 - 11:02 AM PDT  
> Good idea. While she may never attack me in a sexual manner...I still wouldn't trust an inebriated shiori. She'd do SOMETHING mean.
>

Whatever she did though, it'd be fun.

> Now if I was a guy...
>

I'm a guy.

> Naughty, naughty! I've never been drunk. ^_^ I have had a number of friends and friends' friends get really huggy, though. >_>

I get huggy. Usually no matter how drunk I am I control my impulses (except when it comes to talking about meat pies). Once when I was in college I got kissy with this woman I really didn't know that much. That was actually funny in how bizaarly unnatural it was for all involved. Included the memorable dialog: "I'll be back. I have to go throw up." (two minutes later) "Well, did you throw up." "Well, I didn't make it to the bathroom but I threw up over the bridge." (3rd party:)"On the bridge or over the bridge?" "Oh, was that your bicycle?" The other time two years ago, I spent the evening with another single pathetic lonely male, and through various stages of inebriation I had to explain to him how even though it's perfectly logical to reason that a) while sober he never has the nerve to ask women to sleep with him b) if you ask someone to sleep with you the either say yes or no and c) even though it's could be clearly an existential joke and d) she's a bartender and knows how to deal with it and e) he really doesn't care what she thinks of him, even though a-e) imply one thing, I spent the night convincing him he shouldn't go around asking women to sleep with him. When it came time for to leave we discussed whether he was inappropriate and most were fairly friendly and forgiving but felt it was borderline but he'd learn. One woman gave us good-bye hugs and as she hugged my she said, "woozy, however, is never inappropriate". So I bent over and kissed her on the lips for about three seconds and stepped back and she looked very wide-eyed. I said "That was inappropriate, wasn't it?" "Yeees," she said slowly, "That was very inappropriate." A fourth friend drove me to crash at his place and he said "You're really drunk, aren't you?" And I said, "What? is was a joke! I was just pointing out what would be really inappropriate." I woke up in the morning and thought "Oh, crap..." and immediately fired off an apologetic e-mail. Other than those though, I usually just get huggy.

shiori308
post #110  on July 12, 2005 - 6:56 PM PDT  
> On July 12, 2005 - 8:00 AM PDT Battie wrote:
> ---------------------------------

> (Actually, people used to think I was a dude in chat rooms. It became rather offensive when someone would say, "You're not a chick, you liar. You're just trying to attract lesbians." My reply usually involved being straight and not seeing any lesbians around. ^_^
--------

When I first started working at this bar I guess everyone thought I was a lesbian. Which I thought was weird because I am very feminine looking, not even remotely cliche lesbian looking. I guess I am just a really huggy touchy feely person though and that was why. And I do a lot of "guy" stuff according to these froofy girls I work with.

Battie
post #111  on July 12, 2005 - 7:10 PM PDT  
> On July 12, 2005 - 6:56 PM PDT shiori308 wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> When I first started working at this bar I guess everyone thought I was a lesbian. Which I thought was weird because I am very feminine looking, not even remotely cliche lesbian looking. I guess I am just a really huggy touchy feely person though and that was why. And I do a lot of "guy" stuff according to these froofy girls I work with.
> ---------------------------------

Hehe. I've actually never been mistaken for a lesbian. I think it's because I sometimes pepper my conversation with, "Oh man, he's hot!" Lmao.

But don't be offended by their assumption. Texans often mistake women from other states to be lesbians. You all have that weird, unSouthern air. It screams sin!
woozy
post #112  on July 12, 2005 - 7:25 PM PDT  
Texans often mistake women from other states to be lesbians. You all have that weird, unSouthern air. It screams sin!
> ---------------------------------

You know, I want to dig a tunnel. Sneak in at night and abduct you, shiori, and artiflex from that state. I know that's chauvinistic but there... I've said it.

IronS
post #113  on July 13, 2005 - 12:10 AM PDT  
> On July 12, 2005 - 7:10 PM PDT Battie wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > On July 12, 2005 - 6:56 PM PDT shiori308 wrote:
> > ---------------------------------
> > When I first started working at this bar I guess everyone thought I was a lesbian.
> > ---------------------------------
>
> Hehe. I've actually never been mistaken for a lesbian.
>

Me either although, in my youth, I have been mistaken for a boy (and girls would flirt with me). Does that count?

> But don't be offended by their assumption. Texans often mistake women from other states to be lesbians. You all have that weird, unSouthern air. It screams sin!
> ---------------------------------

LOL!!
IronS
post #114  on July 13, 2005 - 12:11 AM PDT  
> On July 12, 2005 - 7:25 PM PDT woozy wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> You know, I want to dig a tunnel. Sneak in at night and abduct you, shiori, and artiflex from that state. I know that's chauvinistic but there... I've said it.
>

"Chauvinistic" isn't quite the adjective I would use, woozy. :P
dvyi
post #115  on July 13, 2005 - 1:22 AM PDT  

>
> And if one would like to explore human sexuality from a more distorted mind then one should rent Human Nature (that is if you can handle a little Charles Kaufman).
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------

charles kaufman is awesome, but i hated that human nature movie.. it was pretty boring,.
woozy
post #116  on July 13, 2005 - 8:57 AM PDT  
> On July 13, 2005 - 12:11 AM PDT IronS wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > On July 12, 2005 - 7:25 PM PDT woozy wrote:
> > ---------------------------------
> > You know, I want to dig a tunnel. Sneak in at night and abduct you, shiori, and artiflex from that state. I know that's chauvinistic but there... I've said it.
> >
>
> "Chauvinistic" isn't quite the adjective I would use, woozy. :P
> ---------------------------------

No? "Texas stinks. California rocks." Seems pretty chauvinistic to me. Of course, I'm refering to geographic chauvinism and not male chauvinism.

What adjective would you have used?

NLee
post #117  on July 13, 2005 - 8:57 AM PDT  
> On July 12, 2005 - 7:25 PM PDT woozy wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> You know, I want to dig a tunnel. Sneak in at night and abduct you, shiori, and artiflex from that state. I know that's chauvinistic but there... I've said it.
> ---------------------------------

Holy smoke! You mean artifex is actually a girl? I never guessed... (* curses at all those missed opportunities for sexual harassment *)

Or maybe this is your way of saying that you are 'bi'?
woozy
post #118  on July 13, 2005 - 9:02 AM PDT  
> charles kaufman is awesome, but i hated that human nature movie.. it was pretty boring,.
> ---------------------------------

Loved "Human Nature" although its cynicism and misanthropy was overwhealming. Hated "Adaptation"; I thought he took too many easy ways out.

woozy
post #119  on July 13, 2005 - 9:07 AM PDT  
> Holy smoke! You mean artifex is actually a girl? I never guessed... (* curses at all those missed opportunities for sexual harassment *)
>
> Or maybe this is your way of saying that you are 'bi'?
>
> ---------------------------------

No, he's a texan. Or located in Texas. We have three far too cool, far too smart, far too *interesting* people for that undeserving and unappreciative state. I say we conduct a strategic strike to rescue them.

from Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:
Main Entry: chau·vin·ism
Pronunciation: 'shO-v&-"ni-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: French chauvinisme, from Nicolas Chauvin, character noted for his excessive patriotism and devotion to Napoleon in Théodore and Hippolyte Cogniard's play La Cocarde tricolore (1831)
1 : excessive or blind patriotism -- compare JINGOISM
2 : undue partiality or attachment to a group or place to which one belongs or has belonged
3 : an attitude of superiority toward members of the opposite sex; also : behavior expressive of such an attitude
- chau·vin·ist /-v&-nist/ noun or adjective
- chau·vin·is·tic /"shO-v&-'nis-tik/ adjective
- chau·vin·is·ti·cal·ly /-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb

Battie
post #120  on July 13, 2005 - 11:39 AM PDT  
> On July 13, 2005 - 9:07 AM PDT woozy wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> No, he's a texan. Or located in Texas. We have three far too cool, far too smart, far too *interesting* people for that undeserving and unappreciative state. I say we conduct a strategic strike to rescue them.
> ---------------------------------

Heh. We can find our own way out. Admittedly, it means facing giant longhorns, some nasty cowboys, a little barbwire fencing, and the occasional Christian-PTA-mom-turned-hunter...but we can do it!

God, after seeing that Geico commercial where the fitness dude pretends to be doing his own commercial and ends with, "You can do eeet!" I can't get the words out of my head! It's been months..!
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