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Asian Cinema. Discussion, Reviews, Questions (aka ChinJaKoFilm Thread)
	Topic by: lizzoqops Posted: September 17, 2005 - 3:37 PM PDT Last Reply: December 2, 2007 - 10:31 PM PST

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author	topic: Asian Cinema. Discussion, Reviews, Questions (aka ChinJaKoFilm Thread)
pooja	post #101  on December 10, 2005 - 1:11 PM PST   Oops, better duck back in the closet before Lizzo shows up... (cue for Cinenaut to say Aflac Aflac!)
lizzoqops	post #102  on December 10, 2005 - 1:40 PM PST   Yeah, I was just gonna say...I appreciate that the thread got some action, but ain't there enough places to do the anime thing?
lizzoqops	post #103  on December 10, 2005 - 1:47 PM PST   And...I watched "The Hidden Blade" yesterday. Hopefully this gets picked up by some Region 1 company, because I thought it was as good as "Twilight Samurai", with the best and most mature performance I've seen from Masatoshi Nagase (Miku Hama, Mystery Train, Electric Dragon). I hope Yamada makes more movies like this. Both were really heartfelt and romantic without being sappy in the least.
dpowers	post #104  on December 10, 2005 - 5:20 PM PST   i finally got to see electric dragon recently. watched it twice - rare for me - probably because i was knocked out by the music. oddly it reminded me more of johnny to than of manga.
pooja	post #105  on December 10, 2005 - 6:35 PM PST   > On December 10, 2005 - 5:20 PM PST dpowers wrote: > --------------------------------- > i finally got to see electric dragon recently. watched it twice I guess you'd have to watch it at least twice to get your money's worth, if it's only an hour long. Maybe I'll try it... I already watched a couple of 3 hour films today so something short would be nice. One of the reviews I read said, "THIS IS CINEMA" so I can see if hamano is just kidding around or not.
lizzoqops	post #106  on December 11, 2005 - 5:58 PM PST   Today I saw "Samurai Saga", Inagaki's take on Cyrano, on the big screen. Very cool. Excellent make-up job on Mifune, he definitely wasn't his handsome self. There was a pretty good crowd there, too, since it's not a readily available film. I saw "Harakiri" last weekend...next weekend is "Seven Samurai". And "Kairo" will also be playing at a local theater. Can't wait to see that on the big screen. A good time to be in the Bay area.
ahogue	post #107  on December 13, 2005 - 1:05 PM PST   > On December 11, 2005 - 5:58 PM PST lizzoqops wrote: > --------------------------------- I saw "Harakiri" last weekend...next weekend is "Seven Samurai". And "Kairo" will also be playing at a local theater. Can't wait to see that on the big screen. A good time to be in the Bay area. > --------------------------------- How was Harakiri? Kairo is playing in my area too. Can't wait to see it.
ahogue	post #108  on December 13, 2005 - 1:20 PM PST   > On December 10, 2005 - 6:36 AM PST hamano wrote: > --------------------------------- > I can only speculate that drawn narrative has historically been popular in Japan, as sections of those articles I linked point out. There was not as much tendency to look down on illustrated literature as something for "stupid" or "less educated" people. --- I assume you must mean that there is some kind of aesthetic similarity between modern Japanese films and manga, and that's the thing that really interests me. Leaving aside the fact that some films are direct adaptations of manga, what signs of manga influence would I hope to see in the film itself -- even in a film that is not based on a particular manga title? > > I think it's really interesting that you group Kurosawa and Miike, as some seem to think they are very different. > > How they're not very different: They both do live action "manga" which is my point... --- By which you mean that Kurosawa has made a film based on a manga? I wasn't aware of that. Which one(s)?
Eoliano	post #109  on December 13, 2005 - 1:36 PM PST   > How was Harakiri? It was gut wrenching! Seriously, Harakiri is a great film and makes a terrific top-half of a double bill with the similarly themed, but very different, Samurai Rebellion. Both films, of course, were directed by Kobayashi. > By which you mean that Kurosawa has made a film based on a manga? I wasn't aware of that. Stop! You're making me laugh so hard that it's opening up my wound!
ahogue	post #110  on December 13, 2005 - 1:54 PM PST   > On December 13, 2005 - 1:36 PM PST Eoliano wrote: > --------------------------------- > > By which you mean that Kurosawa has made a film based on a manga? I wasn't aware of that. > > Stop! You're making me laugh so hard that it's opening up my wound! > --------------------------------- What did I say that was funny?
hamano	post #111  on December 13, 2005 - 2:38 PM PST   Yeah, he was going to follow up Ran with a live action version of AstroBoy... Obviously we were talking about Kiyoshi Kurosawa. That said, I didn't mean that Kurosawa et al are doing any live action versions of real manga (although some of these new directors HAVE). I'm saying that most of them share what I would call a manga sensibility that they incorporate into their work. I haven't made a formal study of this, so it's mostly a feeling I'm getting from my long experience with both manga and film. I think the mainstream aesthetics for film narrative in this country is clearly realism. Worlds are created that look as "real" as possible. This is true even for highly designed film worlds (Charlie and the Chocolate Factory), period films (Shakespeare in Love) and even comics-derived films (Spider Man, X-men). The aesthetic energy is devoted to helping the viewer feel that what he is seeing is a real world. If this fails, the viewer is disappointed (Cinenaut's reaction to the wolves in Narnia). I believe in the most interesting work going on in Japan right now (which isn't to my tastes for the most part, but I can understand the trend) the aesthetic momentum is being directed elsewhere. The point of this difference is that the film-makers are only concerned with making their films' worlds only about as believable as the world in a manga story. There is very little of the film-makers' resources being wasted to make special effects appear real (in American films there are millions of dollars spent on special effects that look so real audiences don't even notice them). I don't know if you ever read the crap dpowers and I wrote about anime vs. live-action back in the Millenium Actress days, but I think we can throw this "manga effect" into the mix. I also think part of the "manga effect" is related to punk arts and surrealism. The reverse is also true... I think punk artists and surrealists have a good sense for how the worlds in manga can be "real"... I'm thinking of the Eraserhead baby and the animatronic robin from Blue Velvet. Hell even Robert Rodriquez understands this... how else to explain the cheesiness of Shark Boy and Lava Girl vs. the graphic quirk of Sin City? Both are OK under the "manga effect"... And even though Quentin Tarantino wouldn't say so himself, he is lately EXACTLY a "manga effect" director. He even put anime into Kill Bill V.1! Again, let me emphasize that I'm personally not a big fan of the "manga effect" live action films. I'd rather watch anime, which seems to be where some of the more talented writers and directors are working. Anime is somehow more of a "mature" arena in Japan, while the "manga effect" film makers are still developing for the most part.
Eoliano	post #112  on December 13, 2005 - 2:46 PM PST   > Yeah, he was going to follow up Ran with a live action version of AstroBoy... Sounds way cool! > Obviously we were talking about Kiyoshi Kurosawa. Obviously! ^_^
hamano	post #113  on December 13, 2005 - 3:53 PM PST   You know, Akira having a soul-mate like Ishiro Honda probably helped the "manga effect" become dominant in Japan... I just watched Godzilla's Revenge with my 4 year old son (his current favorite film) again and in fact, I'm certain...
ahogue	post #114  on December 13, 2005 - 3:58 PM PST   > On December 13, 2005 - 2:38 PM PST hamano wrote: > --------------------------------- > I believe in the most interesting work going on in Japan right now (which isn't to my tastes for the most part, but I can understand the trend) the aesthetic momentum is being directed elsewhere. The point of this difference is that the film-makers are only concerned with making their films' worlds only about as believable as the world in a manga story. There is very little of the film-makers' resources being wasted to make special effects appear real (in American films there are millions of dollars spent on special effects that look so real audiences don't even notice them). --- I can certainly see how this applies to something like Uzumaki, and I think I see it in a general way in Kurosawa's case, but I wonder if you can think of a good example from one of his films? I was thinking lately that the sudden lurching plot shift in the middle of Seance seemed familiar somehow.
hamano	post #115  on December 13, 2005 - 4:22 PM PST   I haven't seen Seance, but look at the production design in The Cure, especially the institutional settings, which get very weird and vaguely non-Japanese as the story progresses. And the way the narrative is progressed I thought was very manga. There's just not a lot of concern about scenic and situational continuity in the sense we usually think of in films.
lizzoqops	post #116  on December 13, 2005 - 5:20 PM PST   > On December 13, 2005 - 4:22 PM PST hamano wrote: > --------------------------------- > I haven't seen Seance, but look at the production design in The Cure, especially the institutional settings, which get very weird and vaguely non-Japanese as the story progresses. And the way the narrative is progressed I thought was very manga. There's just not a lot of concern about scenic and situational continuity in the sense we usually think of in films. > --------------------------------- Well, "Seance" is a remake of "Seance on a Wet Afternoon", so I'm not sure if you can apply the same aesthetics to this one. It was also made for tv, so the same immersion tactics aren't necessarily applied. "Cure" strips itself down as the story goes on, and as the main character is stripped down. At least, that's what I thought. After the peak of the story, the pretense of normality is restored, just to jar the viewers sense of reality again. Whether this has a manga sensibility or not, I thought it was purposely done to heighten the effect. And saying "The Cure" instead of "Cure"...that kind of changes the meaning of the title for me. Like how they changed "Ring" into "The Ring". Am I the only one? I know those articles don't exist in Japanese, but it still seems to give it a different meaning.
dpowers	post #117  on December 13, 2005 - 5:27 PM PST   for instance... no love cats.
hamano	post #118  on December 13, 2005 - 5:55 PM PST   > And saying "The Cure" instead of "Cure"...that kind of changes the meaning of the title for me. Like how they changed "Ring" into "The Ring". Am I the only one? I know those articles don't exist in Japanese, but it still seems to give it a different meaning. Was it "Love Cats," or "The Love Cats"? I liked The Caterpillar (or was it just Caterpillar?)... My all time favorite was "Close to You"... I loved the video with the wardrobe falling down the cliffs. I have it on laserdisc somewhere... Either way, the Japanese are notorious about disregarding the proper use of "a" and "the" when writing English. The original Japanese title is indeed just Kyua but is it because they just forgot to add "Za"? I suppose they want a cool single English word title... they used to add Za for emphasis and coolness in the old days, like Za Beatles... Lizzo, if you want to preserve the original intent of the effect of a Japanese audience seeing the katakana title Kyua maybe we should call the film "Heilung" or something...
ahogue	post #119  on December 13, 2005 - 7:37 PM PST   > On December 13, 2005 - 5:55 PM PST hamano wrote: > --------------------------------- > Either way, the Japanese are notorious about disregarding the proper use of "a" and "the" when writing English. The original Japanese title is indeed just Kyua but is it because they just forgot to add "Za"? I suppose they want a cool single English word title... they used to add Za for emphasis and coolness in the old days, like Za Beatles... --- Wow, I never noticed that the original title was English.
ahogue	post #120  on December 13, 2005 - 7:45 PM PST   > On December 13, 2005 - 5:20 PM PST lizzoqops wrote: > --------------------------------- > Well, "Seance" is a remake of "Seance on a Wet Afternoon", so I'm not sure if you can apply the same aesthetics to this one. It was also made for tv, so the same immersion tactics aren't necessarily applied. ---- Have you seen the original or read the book? I am curious about them, but not really curious enough to actually seek them out. > --- > "Cure" strips itself down as the story goes on, and as the main character is stripped down. At least, that's what I thought. After the peak of the story, the pretense of normality is restored, just to jar the viewers sense of reality again. Whether this has a manga sensibility or not, I thought it was purposely done to heighten the effect. --- I think you're right about that, Liz. I have not read much manga, but based on the anime I've seen I wouldn't think it's related. --- > And saying "The Cure" instead of "Cure"...that kind of changes the meaning of the title for me. Like how they changed "Ring" into "The Ring". Am I the only one? I know those articles don't exist in Japanese, but it still seems to give it a different meaning. > --------------------------------- I agree that there's a subtle difference, but a title in a language that doesn't use articles could be reasonably translated either way, couldn't it?

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