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A place for you to post comments on our articles.
74

Zombie primer: Braaaiiinns...
Topic by: underdog
Posted: October 17, 2005 - 1:20 PM PDT
Last Reply: November 6, 2005 - 11:04 PM PST

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author topic: Zombie primer: Braaaiiinns...
Eoliano
post #41  on October 20, 2005 - 6:10 PM PDT  
> or some such tripe.

AUM! TRIPE!

> I don't remember it being a *bad* movie. Maybe I'll rent it.

It's not a bad movie for what it is. Maybe if GC springs for the new Val Lewton Collection (hint, hint) you can rent it before TCM runs it again in December.
Cinenaut
post #42  on October 21, 2005 - 9:31 AM PDT  
Ghost Breakers has a zombie cameo!
underdog
post #43  on October 21, 2005 - 10:51 AM PDT  
> On October 20, 2005 - 6:10 PM PDT Eoliano wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> It's not a bad movie for what it is. Maybe if GC springs for the new Val Lewton Collection (hint, hint) you can rent it before TCM runs it again in December.
> ---------------------------------

Is there another Val Lewton collection coming out? Otherwise we already have the one I think you're referring to.

Btw, I know what you mean about Tourneur's I Walked With a Zombie not really being a "straight" zombie film in the more modern Romero sense, and he certainly didn't like the lurid title. There's an element of voodoo-undead to the haunting proceedings, certainly. And just as no one, in front of our eyes anyway, turns into cat people in their Cat People film, although in that case it's still a central element to the story. Anyway, from what I recall seeing the film years ago in a film class (haven't yet caught the newly released DVD), it really is more Jane Eyre than Night of the Living Dead, and I'll probably go in and tweak that text slightly. But I think what the author was getting at was the voodoo-ish atmosphere and the feeling of dread and death around them (one character says something like "There's no beauty here - only death and pretence"), and not the brain eating undead that we think of as zombies. Still, it is pushing it...
woozy
post #44  on October 21, 2005 - 1:25 PM PDT  
> Btw, I know what you mean about Tourneur's I Walked With a Zombie not really being a "straight" zombie film in the more modern Romero sense,

Eoliano and I definately agree with you on this.

>There's an element of voodoo-undead to the haunting proceedings, certainly. ..But I think what the author was getting at was the voodoo-ish atmosphere and the feeling of dread and death around them (one character says something like "There's no beauty here - only death and pretence"),

I thought there was a mention of a zombie but there might not have been.

> and not the brain eating undead that we think of as zombies.

No, but the zombie presence, although never explicitely stated nor ever manifesting as "real" or even being a serious threat was of the voodoo caribean witchcraft type. Not the modern walking corpse type. My point was only that the presence was there.

> Still, it is pushing it...
>
I'd accept it as a "zombie" movie, even if only for the back story of the studio pushing it as one against the directors wishes (historical classification), and for the concept of zombieism/voodoo adding theme and atmosphere (related classification). I'm in complete agreement with you and Eoliano that it is zombieless and not "about" zombies. The only issue of discussion is whether it has utterly nothing to do with zombieism, or vaguely related in an indirect way.



Eoliano
post #45  on October 21, 2005 - 1:55 PM PDT  
> Is there another Val Lewton collection coming out? Otherwise we already have the one I think you're referring to.

Just checking to see if you are among the living or the undead. ; P

> Btw, I know what you mean about Tourneur's I Walked With a Zombie not really being a "straight" zombie film in the more modern Romero sense, and he certainly didn't like the lurid title. There's an element of voodoo-undead to the haunting proceedings, certainly. And just as no one, in front of our eyes anyway, turns into cat people in their Cat People film, although in that case it's still a central element to the story. Anyway, from what I recall seeing the film years ago in a film class (haven't yet caught the newly released DVD), it really is more Jane Eyre than Night of the Living Dead, and I'll probably go in and tweak that text slightly. But I think what the author was getting at was the voodoo-ish atmosphere and the feeling of dread and death around them (one character says something like "There's no beauty here - only death and pretence"), and not the brain eating undead that we think of as zombies. Still, it is pushing it...

Perhaps what made Lewton's films so terrific is that everything is implied or kept in the shadows creating an (almost tangible) atmosphere of dread just under the surface. And let's face it, Lewton was very fortunate in having Mark Robson, Jacques Tourneur and Robert Wise as directors, but especially Tourneur, who was a remarkably talented director. Although Lewton did leave us a tidy legacy of films, it's still a pity he didn't live longer than he did,.

By the way, you certainly have an excellent memory for an underdog!

And for what it's worth, I think the last great zombie flick was 28 Days, oh, sorry, wrong film, I meant 28 Days Later.

Getting back to my earlier rant. We have yet to resolve why an influential zombie flick like Carnival of Souls was not mentioned or (at least) listed as a recommendation in the primer...

thump thump thump
Eoliano
post #46  on October 21, 2005 - 2:06 PM PDT  
> I'm in complete agreement with you and Eoliano that it is zombieless and not "about" zombies. The only issue of discussion is whether it has utterly nothing to do with , or vaguely related in an indirect way.

Well, having just seen the film, there is no doubt in my mind that I Walked With a Zombie is directly, indirectly or even vaguely a zombie flick. It's a vooodooism flick!
Eoliano
post #47  on October 21, 2005 - 2:09 PM PDT  
edit: I Walked With a Zombie is not directly, indirectly or even vaguely a zombie flick. It's a voodooism flick!
underdog
post #48  on October 21, 2005 - 2:25 PM PDT  
> On October 21, 2005 - 2:09 PM PDT Eoliano wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> edit: I Walked With a Zombie is not directly, indirectly or even vaguely a zombie flick. It's a voodooism flick!
>
> ---------------------------------


That's our next primer: Voodoo films!

Er, not really.

Btw, 28 Days did star Sandra Bullock, so one could also argue that it is indeed a zombie film. ;-)

Eoliano
post #49  on October 21, 2005 - 2:54 PM PDT  
> That's our next primer: Voodoo films!

> Er, not really.

Okay, so other than I Walked With a Zombie, how many Voodoo flicks can you name?

> Btw, 28 Days did star Sandra Bullock, so one could also argue that it is indeed a zombie film. ;-)

Exactly my point! However, my other point was completely ignored. :-0
pooja
post #50  on October 21, 2005 - 3:34 PM PDT  
Mini-Primer: Voodoo films without zombies!

The Believers (If you can count Santeria as well as voodoo)

Live and Let Die (No real zombies, but Baron Samedi, a voodoo deity, appears)

Angel Heart (OK, maybe not real voodoo... but it's set in N'awlins!)

Major League (There's a player who practices voodoo.)
Eoliano
post #51  on October 21, 2005 - 4:18 PM PDT  
Egad pooja! An IMDb plot and title search returned more voodoo flicks than I thought it would, although many of them are disguised as zombie flicks.

Do you think Rolling Stones: Voodoo Lounge counts?

So, did you try that cervello recipe yet?
woozy
post #52  on October 21, 2005 - 10:42 PM PDT  
> On October 21, 2005 - 2:09 PM PDT Eoliano wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> edit: I Walked With a Zombie is not directly, indirectly or even vaguely a zombie flick. It's a voodooism flick!
>
> ---------------------------------


Okay. I believe you. I guess I find voodooism more interesting than zombieism. My point, if any and as weak as it was, was one of interest in how the concept of zombies, originally a voodoo curse to enslave one in a state of willless slavery in a state of unlife, has become confused with what are more technically "ghouls". So I guess even though there was no zombie in "I walked with a zombie" I like it because it is one of the few non-zombie movies where the zombie that isn't in it, isn't a voodoo zombie instead of not being an animated flesh-eating walking corpse zombie.

So there's my opinion: "I walked with a zombie" deserves to be in a primer of zombie movies because even though it isn't about zombies, the zombies it isn't about are authentic voodoo zombies, rather than it not being about flesh-eating rotting corpses.
ALittlefield
post #53  on October 22, 2005 - 8:17 AM PDT  
If you have a problem with the lack of actual zombies in I WALKED WITH A ZOMBIE (Which I personally really enjoyed)then you should never see GHOST SHIP, another Val Lewton production, that has no ghosts in it! It's actually a pretty good MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY style drama; while I liked it, if I had seen it as a kid I would have been outraged by the lack of ghosts, and I would have been waiting until the last frame of the film to see one.
woozy
post #54  on October 22, 2005 - 10:25 AM PDT  
"Bringing up Baby" didn't have any babies. And the "wizard" in "The Wizard of Oz" was a humbug. What a gyp!

ALittlefield
post #55  on October 22, 2005 - 3:21 PM PDT  
And Captain Kangaroo was neither!
Eoliano
post #56  on October 22, 2005 - 3:31 PM PDT  
> So there's my opinion: "I walked with a zombie" deserves to be in a primer of zombie movies because even though it isn't about zombies, the zombies it isn't about are authentic voodoo zombies, rather than it not being about flesh-eating rotting corpses

I have no problem with I Walked With a Zombie being in the primer and was merely pointing out that Carnival of Souls was not in the primer or recommendation but that it deserves to be.

> If you have a problem with the lack of actual zombies in I WALKED WITH A ZOMBIE (Which I personally really enjoyed)then you should never see GHOST SHIP, another Val Lewton production, that has no ghosts in it! It's actually a pretty good MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY style drama; while I liked it, if I had seen it as a kid I would have been outraged by the lack of ghosts, and I would have been waiting until the last frame of the film to see one.

As underdog pointed out, there are no cat people in Cat People, no zombies in I Walked With a Zombie, etc.
woozy
post #57  on October 22, 2005 - 6:11 PM PDT  
> I have no problem with I Walked With a Zombie being in the primer and was merely pointing out that Carnival of Souls was not in the primer or recommendation but that it deserves to be.
>
I haven't seen Carnival of Souls unfortunately.
> As underdog pointed out, there are no cat people in Cat People, no zombies in I Walked With a Zombie, etc.
> ---------------------------------

I haven't seen Cat People. There really aren't any Cat People?

ALittlefield
post #58  on October 23, 2005 - 4:04 PM PDT  
Actually, there is a cat person (which wouldn't have been as catchy a title). It's the sequel, CURSE OF THE CAT PEOPLE that has no cat people in it. Oddly, it has the same actress who played the cat person in the first film in it, possibly playing the same character, but she never changes into a cat!
Also, I should add that I WALKED WITH A ZOMBIE does have the word Zombie in it, indeed the first line of the film is the female narrator stating the title! Furthermore, the catonic woman's status as a zombie or not is left ambiguous at the film's end.
woozy
post #59  on October 23, 2005 - 9:11 PM PDT  
> Also, I should add that I WALKED WITH A ZOMBIE does have the word Zombie in it, indeed the first line of the film is the female narrator stating the title! Furthermore, the catonic woman's status as a zombie or not is left ambiguous at the film's end.
> ---------------------------------


I *knew* I remembered that!
Eoliano
post #60  on October 25, 2005 - 8:50 AM PDT  
After all my nagging about its conspicuous absence in the primer, I was amused to find a link on today's main page to Jenny Jediny's review of Carnival of Souls at notcomingsoon.com:

"Carnival of Souls is a rare occurrence, one in which shoddiness and schlock characterize a film with genuinely creepy moments and an artful, idiosyncratic visual landscape." Read on to see how this 1962 classic presaged Night of the Living Dead and David Lynch.
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