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By popular demand, a forum devoted to Mr. Philo T. Farnsworth's remarkable invention.
93

Lost - SEASON 4
Topic by: troublemaker
Posted: January 31, 2008 - 5:22 PM PST
Last Reply: September 9, 2008 - 4:32 PM PDT

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author topic: Lost - SEASON 4
underdog
post #61  on April 25, 2008 - 3:27 PM PDT  
> On April 25, 2008 - 12:43 AM PDT SirenTiger wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Fixed Point Theorem Violation: Detected tear in narrative
>

Someone just loves their web symbols (or is that dingbats?) font don't they?
SirenTiger
post #62  on April 25, 2008 - 6:19 PM PDT  
Initiate self examination: gosh, I'm cute!

> On April 25, 2008 - 3:27 PM PDT underdog wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > On April 25, 2008 - 12:43 AM PDT SirenTiger wrote:
> > ---------------------------------
> > Fixed Point Theorem Violation: Detected tear in narrative
> >
>
> Someone just loves their web symbols (or is that dingbats?) font don't they?
> ---------------------------------

Well, I'm pretty new to this identity and I'm working the bugs out. (There goes one now crawling down my thigh. Yuck.)

I think my thought-processes are leaking.

> On April 25, 2008 - 3:26 PM PDT underdog wrote:
> ---------------------------------
>
> So Ben knows he's traveling ahead in time? (He asks what day and year it is) Or was it just a show flash forward?

Good point. It *was* a flash-forward clearly (Sayid was there talking about future events) but it didn't occur to me that Ben might be time-travelling during it and might be the consciousness of a Ben from a different time, possibly even a Ben of island time or earlier.

To create a wacky theory (which I don't believe) maybe when Ben went to the basement he turned on the "time machine" and had the flash-forward experience then and then stepped out of the basement.

> > It was high time for a smoke monster appearance.
>
> So what's the deal with that thing? Ben controls it? Or someone does, anyway. He summoned it just when they needed an escape, a smoke screen as it were.
> >

Another wacky theory: Maybe the smoke monster is a side effect of time-travelling. Perhaps a place for a time traveller's conscious to reside while his temporal body is busy using its temperal consciousness. Or maybe a way for time travelor to meet one's past (or future) self without usurping the past (or future) body's consciousness.
doozer
post #63  on April 26, 2008 - 5:06 PM PDT  
So who got all teary eyed when Ben had that moment with his daughter? Because..I..uh...didn't at all.
Vanamonde
post #64  on April 26, 2008 - 9:01 PM PDT  
> On April 26, 2008 - 5:06 PM PDT doozer wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> So who got all teary eyed when Ben had that moment with his daughter? Because..I..uh...didn't at all.
> ---------------------------------

I am such a sucker for daughter drama, been the father of daughters. It was no such more as teary eyed as Nigara Falls. And I hate myself for developing even an iota of empathy for Ben! But I believe we are going down that path and before it is over, Ben may Save The World. It seems he has access to so some techo/magic on the Island and Mr. Whitmore craves it, just he does. I think the "smoke monster", "Jacob", and Ben's time traveling are all part of the techo/magic. Someday, it may be revealing and we will find out how wrong I am...again. I wonder if Ben had been in the polar lands before appearing in Tunsia or he had expected that he might had appeared in a polar climate in of the Sahara? He may not be able to drive the time/space machine very well. He probably killed his technician.

"Might as face it, I'm addicted to LOST"

And on the Sawyer/Hugo affection. The fact that Sawyer feels so strongly about Hugo and it is nonsexual is it's power. I think he feels he owe his life to him. And he is right.

Still, that the slash would make a *cute* image.

SirenTiger
post #65  on April 26, 2008 - 11:32 PM PDT  

> On April 26, 2008 - 9:01 PM PDT Vanamonde wrote:
> ------------------------------------------------
> ______________________________________
> And on the Sawyer/Hugo affection. The fact that
> Sawyer feels so strongly about Hugo and it is nonsexual
> is it's power. I think he feels he owe his life
> to him. And he is right.________________
>_________________________________
> Still, that the slash would make a *cute* image.
>__________________________________________
___________________________________________
I don't think Sawyer actually feels affection for Hugo,
nor for that matter for Claire. He does, however,
not want to lose his people to his enemies.
___________________________________________
It does make a cute image to
fantasize about though, doesn't it?

printf "Good-night, Gracie\n";
doozer
post #66  on April 27, 2008 - 1:18 AM PDT  
> On April 26, 2008 - 9:01 PM PDT Vanamonde wrote:
> ---------------------------------
>
> I am such a sucker for daughter drama, been the father of daughters.


I'm such a sucker for father/daughter drama, having been a daughter (complete with daddy issues!). Anytime I see a daddy/daughter moment - especially if it's with one of them dying or dead - it's as if the Hoover dam broke behind my eyes.


> On April 26, 2008 - 11:32 PM PDT SirenTiger wrote:
>
> I don't think Sawyer actually feels affection for Hugo,
> nor for that matter for Claire. He does, however,
> not want to lose his people to his enemies.


I'm not so sure anymore. When they were bunkered down in the house he called Claire sweetheart (or something similar). I think this might be the only time he's ever used a term of endearment in a non sarcastic way.
SirenTiger
post #67  on April 27, 2008 - 2:24 AM PDT  
> On April 27, 2008 - 1:18 AM PDT doozer wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > On April 26, 2008 - 11:32 PM PDT SirenTiger wrote:
> >
> > I don't think Sawyer actually feels affection for Hugo,
> > nor for that matter for Claire. He does, however,
> > not want to lose his people to his enemies.
>
>
> I'm not so sure anymore. When they were bunkered down in the house he called Claire sweetheart (or something similar). I think this might be the only time he's ever used a term of endearment in a non sarcastic way.
> ---------------------------------


Yes, I did notice he called her "Sweetheart" and it was not sarcastic. I don't think he nescessarily feels affection so much as ... justice ... if Ben and Locke have proven themselves to be nutcases and taken him, Sawyer, along for the ride, he figures he should rescue all others also taken along for the ride. i.e. Hurley and Claire. I think he does now consider them part of his group and his fellow survivors.

I was pissed when they killed Rousseau (I think I have a crush on her) but I wasn't shocked. However the casting off of Alex so quickly and bluntly was shocking. I'm worried we might not be supposed to develop emotional involvement in the story. It certainly has been plot rather than pathos driven this season.

qwerty uiop
troublemaker
post #68  on April 27, 2008 - 11:05 PM PDT  
Anyone catch this USA Today article where the producers of the show rated various user-submitted theories? While all of them are interesting, "Dharma Chameleon" is the one that got both A-grades from Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse.

With that said, what a freakin' episode we had this week! There was too much to digest (in a good way, of course).
SirenTiger
post #69  on April 28, 2008 - 12:13 AM PDT  
> On April 27, 2008 - 11:05 PM PDT troublemaker wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Anyone catch this USA Today article where the producers of the show rated various user-submitted theories? While all of them are interesting, "Dharma Chameleon" is the one that got both A-grades from Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse.
>
Ah, that was fun. I did like "The 6 and the sickness" in pointing out that with the exception of Aaron, the Oceanic 6 were precisely the five who weren't near the hatch exploded. Well, michael and Walt weren't...

Santa Rosa Chalkboard: jump the shark

SirenTiger
post #70  on May 1, 2008 - 11:19 PM PDT  
Did the yankees ever beat the red sox in/to the series in the last few years? Shall we assume the flash-forwards are not in our/real time future? Damn, so much for my hope that Rousseau wasn't dead. I had been wondering about the warning that Aaron had to be raised by Claire. Is there any possible way that Christian Shepard died on the island? Maybe only people who die on the island get to be ghosts? But technically then the non-survivors of 815 could also be ghosts. But have we seen a visitation or apparation of a dead person (other than Christian) who died somewhere other than the island? Can the not dead girl Eko visited in Australia who saw Yemi have anything to do with anything? Walt hid from the polar bear within the roots of a Banyan tree. Juliette and Kate hid from the smoke monster within the roots of a Banyan tree. Claire left Aaron within the roots of a Banyan tree. Do Banyan trees offer special protection?
SirenTiger
post #71  on May 2, 2008 - 8:38 AM PDT  
So, I'm being a little slow but as it has now become clear that "special" people (Walt, Locke, Eko, Hurley, and now Claire and Jack) can see apparitions of dead people, Hurley's pre-island Dave was probably such an apparition. If so, who is the real Dave, did he die on the island, and why did the island want Hurley to kill himself? Or do the apparitions appear as dead people known to the viewer and thus although the "original" Dave was actually an hullicination, he was real to Hurley when Hurley was in Santa Rosa but "died" when Hurley recovered, and thus is fair game to the island's "dead person apparition device".

run remorse(rousseau);
troublemaker
post #72  on May 7, 2008 - 12:35 AM PDT  
Also, I would think it important to acknowledge that the characters who can see dead people only see those that are specific and important to them personally. That is, except the character of Miles. In the most recent episode he seems to sense the murder that happened but whether or not any actual communication occurred is arguable.
SirenTiger
post #73  on May 7, 2008 - 12:25 PM PDT  
> On May 7, 2008 - 12:35 AM PDT troublemaker wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Also, I would think it important to acknowledge that the characters who can see dead people only see those that are specific and important to them personally. That is, except the character of Miles. In the most recent episode he seems to sense the murder that happened but whether or not any actual communication occurred is arguable.
> ---------------------------------

I think Miles ability as a medium is different or coincidental to the phenomena of the others seeing dead people. In fact I'm not sure the dead people are who they appear to be (Yemi mocked Eko for "talking as though I were your brother").

SirenTiger
post #74  on May 8, 2008 - 11:20 PM PDT  
What is Locke's birth date? The scene with Claire was one of the creepiest things I've ever seen. When did/will Claire get a bandage on her forehead? So it does look as though the writers are going science-fiction / conspiracy agents of destiny routes which I find disappointing. So, folks believe John Locke is the reincarnation of a leader a la Dhali Lama and John probably is except he thought a knife would be cooler than the boring book of Law which he knew was really the right answer but he was an eight year-old kid after all and what eight-year old wouldn't lie to get a cool knife rather than a boring old book?

Mittelos in Portland, Ore, eh? How do you spell Mitleoss? Is it an anagram of Time Loss?

Oh, and what did Hurley say in his sleep? It sounded like "No, *I*'m Hurley".
SirenTiger
post #75  on May 8, 2008 - 11:27 PM PDT  
D'oh! Mittelos is an anagram of "Lost Time". D'Oh!
Cinenaut
post #76  on May 9, 2008 - 8:38 AM PDT  
I felt the same way about the scene with Claire, that was the creepiest Lost scene in a long time. It was creepier than Ben making his Ben face.

It was also kind of creepy when some of the lovable castaways got smiles on their faces hearing the helicopter approaching.

It was quite the surprise seeing Richard pop up in the 1950s.

Other than that, I thought it was kind of a weak episode, but I suppose it's hard to keep the momentum up every week.

Do you suppose they are going to "move the island" in time as well as space?
SirenTiger
post #77  on May 9, 2008 - 11:03 AM PDT  
A minor (?) nitpick: If it was a bearing of 035 to get from the island to the boat, wouldn't it be a bearing of 215 to get from the boat to the island?

Or is the island boat world in some closed loop so that it is a bearing of 035 to get from anywhere to anywhere?
Cinenaut
post #78  on May 9, 2008 - 3:25 PM PDT  
Ha! Very good point.

If Locke moves the island, will the bearing change, causing everybody to become unstuck in time when they try to go there?

> On May 9, 2008 - 11:03 AM PDT SirenTiger wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> A minor (?) nitpick: If it was a bearing of 035 to get from the island to the boat, wouldn't it be a bearing of 215 to get from the boat to the island?
>
> Or is the island boat world in some closed loop so that it is a bearing of 035 to get from anywhere to anywhere?
> ---------------------------------

SirenTiger
post #79  on May 9, 2008 - 4:25 PM PDT  
I'm trying to remember if every reference to the bearing was 035. Did Lapidus in the heliocopter say it was 035 to the boat or did he say 215? If the beach camp is on the west side of the island and the ferry dock where all the exiting stuff happened in the season two finale is on the northern tip of the island then the boat (and the heliocopter flying over head over the beach) would be SSW of the island and it'd be 215 to the boat and 035 to "off the island".

      035
/
{dock}
{ /} }
% / {
/ }
/{ {.,
{beach {
/ { ISLAND }
/ %% %%
boat %%%%%
/
/

Someone on the fuselage forums noted Horace claimed to have been dead for 12 years. If Danielle was on the island 16 years then she and the Dharma Initiative co-existed for 4 years which I had simply assumed the Dharma massacre occured either before or roughly the same time as the Alex kidnapping. Could Alex have been kidnapped by someone other than Ben and lived a life of 3, 4, maybe more years before coming into Bens?

The folks on the fuselage forum seem a bit confused by the timeline. I thought it was pretty clear that island time was a day or two ahead of outside world time. Neat that events can cointeract between the time, so that the body of the doctor can wash-up ashore in island time "before" the doctor gets killed in boat time.

Oh, the drawing of young Locke's... smoke monster?

I'm wondering if anyone ever claimed Locke and Ben were destined and chosen by the island or did both of them seem to merely assume they must be.

Island manifestations may not be who they seem to be so that may or may not have been Claire and Christian. Somehow it bugs me, if it isn't Charlie who is bugging Hurley in Santa Rosa.

Thing that's still perculating in my brain is Desmond's claim that he specifically saw Claire getting into the heliocopter yet they seem to really be leading to that not happening.

What does Kiemy's (sp?) name mean?
SirenTiger
post #80  on May 9, 2008 - 4:42 PM PDT  
Oh, does the time difference only occur if one travels by air?

Will Sayid in Zodiac arrive ... or wait the boat is behind the island in time. Ooh, could Sayid have arrived the day *before*? Could someone travelling over the surface (like the doctors body except alive not dead) arrive on the island without going through the time difference and then get on a satellite phone and talk to himself one or two days in the past?

Or does the speed of travel effect the time differential. (i.e. the rocket {very fast} finds the island to be ... hmm, that doesn't make sense. The rocket should have, if anything, arrived before it was sent... I think I need to figure out the correct frame of reference. Radio => island/outside synched. Rocket => island 30 minutes behind. Heliocopter => island day and a half ahead. Float in currents => island day and half + ahead...
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