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GreenCine Movie Talk
Star Power
Discuss the people who make what we watch.
59

Pubic Hair
Topic by: kaream
Posted: January 27, 2008 - 3:25 AM PST
Last Reply: April 8, 2010 - 8:18 AM PDT

page  1  2  3      prev | next
author topic: Pubic Hair
kaream
post #41  on June 8, 2008 - 11:55 PM PDT  
> On February 7, 2008 - 1:23 PM PST kaream wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > On February 7, 2008 - 6:17 AM PST hamano wrote:
> > ---------------------------------
> > Going under the knife
> > ---------------------------------
>
> Holy dildoes, Batman! It looks like a real live two-in-one!
>
> 'Double your pleasure, double your fun, ...'
>
> ---------------------------------


Because this thread is essentially about cultural attitudes, and also because the subject of circumcision has already been brought up here, I have a few other general questions that I'm going to post here instead of starting a new thread.

If we look at manga/ anime/ hentai presumably produced originally and primarily for a Japanese audience, it's hard to avoid noticing 1) that to the extent it's clearly depicted, male characters seem to be almost universally circumcised -- while at the same time circumcision is almost unknown in Japan, having one of the lowest rates in the world. And 2) these stories are filled with blue and green eyes, and blond hair, as well as generally non-Oriental facial features.

So what's going on here?

Are the DVDs we find here at GreenCine (or BlueCine) drawn specifically for Western audiences, while others that we don't see are more aimed at a home (Japanese) audience?

Is hentai specifically considered to be a genre appealing to Western perversions, while more innocent anime or manga use characters drawn with more Japanese-looking features?

Is any of this related to the post-war occupation and the continuing stationing of American troops, with a perceived American fascination with sex and sexual mores that are foreign to traditional Japanese attitudes?

Might there even be some sense of Western-'envy', if we could call it that, in somewhat the same sense that Japan responded so quickly to Western-style modernization in the 19th C?

Any thoughts?
doozer
post #42  on June 9, 2008 - 12:33 AM PDT  
> On June 8, 2008 - 11:55 PM PDT kaream wrote:
>
>
> Because this thread is essentially about cultural attitudes, and also because the subject of circumcision has already been brought up here, I have a few other general questions that I'm going to post here instead of starting a new thread.
>
> If we look at manga/ anime/ hentai presumably produced originally and primarily for a Japanese audience, it's hard to avoid noticing 1) that to the extent it's clearly depicted, male characters seem to be almost universally circumcised -- while at the same time circumcision is almost unknown in Japan, having one of the lowest rates in the world. And 2) these stories are filled with blue and green eyes, and blond hair, as well as generally non-Oriental facial features.
>
> So what's going on here?
>
> Are the DVDs we find here at GreenCine (or BlueCine) drawn specifically for Western audiences, while others that we don't see are more aimed at a home (Japanese) audience?
>
> Is hentai specifically considered to be a genre appealing to Western perversions, while more innocent anime or manga use characters drawn with more Japanese-looking features?
>
> Is any of this related to the post-war occupation and the continuing stationing of American troops, with a perceived American fascination with sex and sexual mores that are foreign to traditional Japanese attitudes?
>
> Might there even be some sense of Western-'envy', if we could call it that, in somewhat the same sense that Japan responded so quickly to Western-style modernization in the 19th C?
>
> Any thoughts?
> ---------------------------------


Perhaps it's simply the Westerners fascination with Asian porn and Eastern cultures/traditions/thingsingeneral in reverse.
hamano
post #43  on June 9, 2008 - 3:37 AM PDT  
I guess it started as a desire to provide Japanese manga characters with "sexy" or "attractive" (ie. exotic) Western attributes. Also, it was a really easy way to draw characters who looked unique, so you could tell them apart. If you drew them to resemble real Japanese people it would be hard to tell A-ko from C-ko, especially in black&white manga.

Now it's evolved to the point where it's just another manga/anime convention. The artists grow up watching American movies like kids all over the world, and you wanna make your characters look and act like American movie stars/characters (or James Bond).

So it's the pursuit of the idealized anime character design that drives the "look" of the characters. Strict adherence to REAL human attributes start to get less and less important. Impossibly long (or short) legs, big eyes, pointy chins, noses that disappear, pink hair, blue hair, green hair all have become standard issue.

With most manga/anime/comics artists, the point is not to create characters that "look real"... only artists working in one area of CG animation is totally invested in realness as a goal. Those guys want to render hair texture, eye reflectivity, skin tones, etc as realistically as possible.

It was interesting watching how character design evolved at PIXAR... If you look at the first Toy Story they were obviously trying to make the human characters look realistic, and failing miserably considering the CG power they had back then. As the PIXAR "look" evolved after that they stopped trying to make the human characters look "real" in favor of a more "cartoon character" look.

If you throw away the misconception that anime/manga artists want to achieve character designs that look like real humans, you see that they are trying to perfect a sort of idealized graphic character convention that might reflect real world values (curvy women, muscular men, etc.) but at the same time goes much farther.

What's funny now is that with the evolution of anime fandom and people who cosplay, we have actual humans trying to duplicate the anime character ideal "look" in real life. So the clean shaven look of today's porn stars, men and women, might be because they're watching a lot of hentai and enjoy the way the characters look.

If all manga/anime artists and fans were interested in was anatomical accuracy, I think the world of graphic narrative would be really boring. It's a medium where you use stylized human figures to tell a human story. Getting rid of unnecessary and/or messy details is considered a VIRTUE in drawing comics, so usually that means good-bye body hair, good-bye foreskin....
kaream
post #44  on June 9, 2008 - 11:32 AM PDT  
Hamano, thanks.

That was a very thoughtful and well-thought-out response. I'd guess you must have been mulling over much the same issues yourself for a while, and everything you said makes a great deal of sense.
kaream
post #45  on June 9, 2008 - 11:57 AM PDT  
Hamano, if you look back to the discussion of Hokusai's Dream of the Fisherman's Wife at the bottom of the first page of this thread, have you ever tried to decipher any of his scrawled text that surrounds the picture? And might you have any clue as to whether he's relying on antique mythology or tradition to any extent, or is this purely the result of his own imagination?

(I'm not trying to put you in an embarrassing position -- 'beats the shit outta me' is a perfectly acceptable response here.)
hamano
post #46  on June 9, 2008 - 12:42 PM PDT  
> On June 9, 2008 - 11:57 AM PDT kaream wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Hamano, if you look back to the discussion of Hokusai's Dream of the Fisherman's Wife at the bottom of the first page of this thread, have you ever tried to decipher any of his scrawled text that surrounds the picture?

It's so cursive it's difficult for me to read. I suppose if I google around for a day I could come up with a transcript in modern Japanese... how much are you gonna pay me?
^_^

No charge for endless musings on foreskins...
kaream
post #47  on June 9, 2008 - 3:00 PM PDT  
^_^
kaream
post #48  on June 10, 2008 - 5:25 PM PDT  
> On June 8, 2008 - 11:55 PM PDT kaream wrote:
> ---------------------------------
these stories are filled with blue and green eyes, and blond hair, as well as generally non-Oriental facial features.
> ---------------------------------

Funny, in rummaging around online for hentai I have run across a few Japanese-looking characters -- always as villains!
artifex
post #49  on April 6, 2010 - 12:14 PM PDT  
> On June 8, 2008 - 11:55 PM PDT kaream wrote:
> 2) these stories are filled with blue and green eyes, and blond hair, as well as generally non-Oriental facial features.

I wanted to point out that, except for the villains mentioned above, most of the eyes you'll see in anime and manga are round (Western) and not almond-shaped, which would be due to an epicanthic fold.

Since I seem to have shocked some people with the idea that some women are selfish enough to demand men get circumsized for cosmetic reasons, let me do it again: some Asian parents put their kids through eye fold surgery.
IronS
post #50  on April 7, 2010 - 12:07 AM PDT  
You're back! :)
underdog
post #51  on April 7, 2010 - 12:03 PM PDT  
> On April 7, 2010 - 12:07 AM PDT IronS wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> You're back! :)
> ---------------------------------

He picked an interesting thread to come back with, too! ;-)
artifex
post #52  on April 8, 2010 - 8:18 AM PDT  
> On April 7, 2010 - 12:03 PM PDT underdog wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > On April 7, 2010 - 12:07 AM PDT IronS wrote:
> > ---------------------------------
> > You're back! :)
> > ---------------------------------
>
> He picked an interesting thread to come back with, too! ;-)

Years later, the threads are more sparse. (Sort of the inverse of pubes)
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