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Anime
Discuss all topics related to anime.
561

For My Viewing Pleasure
Topic by: Mala
Posted: May 9, 2004 - 5:36 AM PDT
Last Reply: May 12, 2004 - 4:29 PM PDT

page  1  2  3  4  5      prev | next
author topic: For My Viewing Pleasure
fdguarino
post #61  on May 10, 2004 - 2:50 PM PDT  
> On May 10, 2004 - 2:25 PM PDT hamano wrote:
> ---------------------------------

> And additionally, you can make rude hand gestures at your opponent!

Psychological warfare!

> I would think that any "walking" mecha is inherently problematic because it is basically unstable, and require sophisticated feedback systems to keep balance. This was the weakness for those 4 legged things in Star Wars, as well... you could hogtie them, and they'd fall right over! The center of gravity, especially with the addition of weapons, is really high, and the most vulnerable spot, the cockpit, is right at the top! Maybe a spider design with legs that arc over the main body, which is kept low, would be better.... the sensors could be at the "knees" at the highest point of the leg arcs.

If they can get that Segway 'over-priced' transport to balance, then they can get a "walking" mecha to balance.

Also, I'm not certain that the current servo/stepper motor technology will be the motor mechanism on mecha/mech. Synthetic muscle technology is moving along very quickly. Note: this is what the Battletech mech use. I really wish I had a link to send you for the Synthetic muscle tech, but you can look it up on Google.

All armor needs proper infantry and air support or they are extremely vulnerable, even in 'open' areas. The Israeli Defense Force found this out in 1973.

I still think the main question is that is a "leg" tank better than a "track" tank. I suspect that only in certain rocky and steep terrain (Afghanistan?) would it be better. Imagine a lightly armoured, fast mecha that could hop around on that type of terrain like a grasshopper.

-FDGUARINO
jross3
post #62  on May 10, 2004 - 2:54 PM PDT  
> On May 10, 2004 - 2:25 PM PDT hamano wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> And additionally, you can make rude hand gestures at your opponent!

Yes, the psychological aspect is an equal part of fighting to technique and

> Maybe a spider design with legs that arc over the main body, which is kept low, would be better.... the sensors could be at the "knees" at the highest point of the leg arcs.

like the angel in Eva?

>
> The really funny ones were the robot suits in Blue Gender. They had legs, but moved on little tires in the "feet" making them look like they were jet roller skating. I guess those are good if you know you're going to be on pavement or hard flat ground, but wouldn't it just get mucked up anywhere else?

yeah.. kinda defeats the purpose of having a mecha when it wheels around like a car. Except it can still wave its arms around and carry things on its back, as well as flip off enemy mecha.
jross3
post #63  on May 10, 2004 - 3:04 PM PDT  
> On May 10, 2004 - 2:50 PM PDT fdguarino wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> If they can get that Segway 'over-priced' transport to balance, then they can get a "walking" mecha to balance.

It can because it's on wheels. I suppose the torso of a mech could use the leg joints on the same principle, especially if there are four. (jeez, I'm geeking out again. What is it about mecha that bring this out in people? I don't even watch that many mecha shows...)

>
> Synthetic muscle technology is moving along very quickly.

it doesn't matter; in the future, we'll all be able to be Tehxnolyzed, for a price.

> All armor needs proper infantry and air support or they are extremely vulnerable, even in 'open' areas. The Israeli Defense Force found this out in 1973.
>
> I still think the main question is that is a "leg" tank better than a "track" tank.

Not better, but much cooler!

> I suspect that only in certain rocky and steep terrain (Afghanistan?) would it be better. Imagine a lightly armoured, fast mecha that could hop around on that type of terrain like a grasshopper.

It would be cool... but there's nobody to kill there!
But then again, we can have the "sniper mecha" (another interesting but probably useless design) up there picking off the heavy armor on the plains below. But then again, we could just airlift in a light artillery.

Maybe we should move this to the theoretical "off off topic". Poor Mala is going to have enough trouble finding recomendations as it is...
hamano
post #64  on May 10, 2004 - 3:13 PM PDT  
So what are the tactical advantages of a bipedal flying mecha with arms, like the Macross and Gundam ones? Aside from the rude hand gestures? Wouldn't it make more sense to have helicopterish propellerhead mecha? In a tibute to geek otaku fans?
jross3
post #65  on May 10, 2004 - 3:26 PM PDT  
> On May 10, 2004 - 3:13 PM PDT hamano wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> So what are the tactical advantages of a bipedal flying mecha with arms, like the Macross and Gundam ones? Aside from the rude hand gestures? Wouldn't it make more sense to have helicopterish propellerhead mecha? In a tibute to geek otaku fans?
> ---------------------------------

Like Big Duo? Now there's a mecha!
Shaky
post #66  on May 10, 2004 - 3:31 PM PDT  
> On May 9, 2004 - 9:02 PM PDT hamano wrote:
> OK, as long as we're in nerd mode, what's your favorite bipedal humanoid mecha?


I have to go with Neo Ranga. The show actually wasn't that great, but there's just something about three naked teenage girls suspended in some sort of liquid nerve center to bond with a monster whose face and eyes change depending on his mood that forces me to watch. Plus, he has that one huge arm, reminiscent of the mismatched sleeves of Heian robes, to smash things with. And that creepy sword he pulls out of his chest.

If someone were going to give me my choice of mecha, I would choose Neo Ranga.

> On May 10, 2004 - 12:48 PM PDT fdguarino wrote:
> Most anime mecha would not survive on the modern battlefield.


What if the battlefield is space? Then the legs wouldn't make any difference. The Robotech fighters always seem to do well in space, and they don't really use their legs to walk around on land very much.

The disadvantages of a humanoid form are obvious. But what about the advantages?

First of all, regardless of the stupidity of using arms and hands to fire guns, it might actually be advantageous for some vehicles to have arms with human dexterity with which they could grasp things. This would probably work better for construction vehicles than for fighting vehicles, but there might be some advantage to being able to pick things up and carry them without having to have any kind of special cargo mount. For example, if your buddy's machine is damaged, you can grab him and pull him out of harm's way.

The humanoid form itself would make sense IF you could control it just as you control the human body. That was the whole point of Heinlein's powered suits in Starship Troopers (the book, not the crappy movie). The suits were supposed to move just like human beings, except that they could run faster and jump further, and they were controlled as an extension of the pilot's own body movements instead of with silly joysticks or yokes as in other mecha. When the marines attack a city on one planet early in the book, they're jumping around, over and on top of buildings, throwing tactical nukes as they go. Being able to jump and climb like a superhuman would get you into and out of more places than the tracks on a tank. With wheeled or tracked vehicles, they wouldn't have been able to move through the city as easily.

Speaking of which (and since we've gone so far off topic anyway), has anyone watched the Roughneck Chronicles, which is a computer animated version of Starship Troopers? I have them in my queue, but I was curious of others' impressions.
NLee
post #67  on May 10, 2004 - 3:57 PM PDT  
(on why bipedal mecha are always used in anime)
You guys are missing the point! Mechas are not weapons. The are soldiers. A human-operated gaint robot is not just a machine. It is the extension of the pilot inside its cockpit. As sure, each mecha in anime comes with personality, strength and weakness that the viewer can identify with. Try doing that with a tank!

The Japanese giant robot animes have always been modelled as samurai movies fought with knights in shining armors. No matter how good are their weapons, combating mechas inevitably run out of missles and bullets, and they have to fight each others with swords or even with 'bare hands'. We want the pilot to feel pain when his mecha is hit. We want the mech to bleed red engine oil when it is damaged. Try making that kind of emotional link with a tank!

Oh and if I even have to pilot a giant robot in hand-to-hand combat, I'll definitely choose "Gunbuster". At 250 meters high, it can flatten any other mecha in one step!
markhl
post #68  on May 10, 2004 - 4:04 PM PDT  
> On May 10, 2004 - 3:13 PM PDT hamano wrote:
> So what are the tactical advantages of a bipedal flying mecha with arms, like the Macross and Gundam ones? Aside from the rude hand gestures?


One advantage is the Guardian configuration of the Valkyrie which blew my fragile little mind.. My vote for best mecha goes to the "original" (for me anyway)...

BTW, someone brought up the point of the power plug of the Evas. I actually loved that little touch to the Evangelion units to make its power finite (well, until.. you know). Even Homer Simpson knows that we shouldn't violate the second law of thermodynamics with these fantastic mechas..
hamano
post #69  on May 10, 2004 - 4:24 PM PDT  
> On May 10, 2004 - 3:57 PM PDT NLee wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Oh and if I even have to pilot a giant robot in hand-to-hand combat, I'll definitely choose "Gunbuster". At 250 meters high, it can flatten any other mecha in one step!
> ---------------------------------
Was that bigger than superdimensional fortress Macross? Wasn't that a humougous bipedal mecha?

After the "Ingram" I'd have to say the guymelef mechas from Escaflowne and the giant A-Ko robot from Project A-ko are my second and third favorite mechas. I almost peed my pants when I saw the A-ko robot.
hamano
post #70  on May 10, 2004 - 4:28 PM PDT  
> On May 10, 2004 - 3:31 PM PDT Shaky wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> The humanoid form itself would make sense IF you could control it just as you control the human body. That was the whole point of Heinlein's powered suits in Starship Troopers (the book, not the crappy movie). The suits were supposed to move just like human beings, except that they could run faster and jump further, and they were controlled as an extension of the pilot's own body movements instead of with silly joysticks or yokes as in other mecha.

Then, curiously enough, the original Bubblegum Crisis hardsuits were closer to Heinlein's vision, I guess. A bit too snug and compact to be believable, but conceptually they honored Heinlein's basic design. The clunky AD Police mecha suits were almost exactly like the Starship Trooper armor, except for the requirement for being airtight and vacuum ready.
markhl
post #71  on May 10, 2004 - 4:57 PM PDT  
> On May 10, 2004 - 4:28 PM PDT hamano wrote:
> Then, curiously enough, the original Bubblegum Crisis hardsuits were closer to Heinlein's vision, I guess. A bit too snug and compact to be believable, but conceptually they honored Heinlein's basic design.


c'mon.. how can you knock sleek hardsuits with high heels? Isn't that the ultimate test for mobility? (and they wondered there were only female members of the BGC group).. Not that it made sense but they even showed how the older suit compacts itself with the "secret" core in place.. Of course, this was all before the liquid metal evolution.. mmmm.. liquid metal.. >B)
Mala
post #72  on May 10, 2004 - 5:26 PM PDT  
OMG!!!Sheesh!!WTH!

Guys,

I feel overwhelmed. There are sooo many responses with lots of well thought anime recommendations.

I have seen:

Berserk (FREAKIN BEST ANIME SERIES..Loved it so much that I began to buy the manga, reading it religously...Live on thehawks.org)
Record of Lodoss War (Had depth...Ashram rocked...The TV series sucked)
Noir (thorougly enjoyed)
Lain (My head hurts)
Cowboy Bebop (Spike is just too cool)
X the Series (beautiful to look at)
Ninja Scroll (TV Series)...don't tease me like that
Inuyasha (A guilty pleasure)
Vampire Princess Miyu (ending was a twist)
Hellsing (Alucard intrigues me)
Samurai X-Trust/Betrayal (lovely)

I am throwing Read or Die, Evangelion, into my queue. I am still sifting through the rest.I will be busy for a while

p.s. Jross I have a 8-Out Plan and am loving it..
p.s.s. Hamano u have started some serious mecha hijacking:-P


Thanks for suggestions,
jross3
post #73  on May 10, 2004 - 5:34 PM PDT  
> On May 10, 2004 - 4:57 PM PDT markhl wrote:
> mmmm.. liquid metal.. >B)
> ---------------------------------
Hooray for liquid metal!

My third choice for a mecha: the adorable Lina doll golem (not exactly a mecha, but come on) from Slayers: Great. Not the most functional, but it's so darn adorable :-)

Fourth place: MSA-0011 (here and here). Legs optional; will all that crap on it, aparently they had to stick a bunch jet engines on the bottom to hold it up. I would feel quite secure in this machine. Sadly, it's not exactly outfitted for hand-to-hand combat, but with a "mega particle beam cannon", it doesn't have to be.
jross3
post #74  on May 10, 2004 - 5:49 PM PDT  
> On May 10, 2004 - 5:26 PM PDT Mala wrote:

yay! I was worried about you.

> ---------------------------------
> OMG!!!Sheesh!!WTH!

Indeed!

> Guys,

with all this mech talk that's probably more or less fair...

> I feel overwhelmed. There are sooo many responses with lots of well thought anime recommendations.

I thought you might be....

> I have seen:
>
> Berserk (FREAKIN BEST ANIME SERIES..Loved it so much that I began to buy the manga, reading it religously...Live on thehawks.org)
Good for you!
> Record of Lodoss War (Had depth...Ashram rocked...The TV series sucked)
Ashram is the best villian ever.
> Noir (thorougly enjoyed)
good!
> Lain (My head hurts)
my head hurts just thinking about it.
> Cowboy Bebop (Spike is just too cool)
Good!
> X the Series (beautiful to look at)
Don't spoil it for me! I only just got 4&5 (availability...)
> Ninja Scroll (TV Series)...don't tease me like that
I'm not teasing... just laughing.
> Inuyasha (A guilty pleasure)
Guilty, nothing! Just talk to the MegaDeus if you have doubts.
> Vampire Princess Miyu (ending was a twist)
haven't seen it yet, but I'm looking forward to it.
> Hellsing (Alucard intrigues me)
Alucard rocks my world!
> Samurai X-Trust/Betrayal (lovely)
super lovely :-)


> I am throwing Read or Die, Evangelion, into my queue. I am still sifting through the rest.I will be busy for a while.

You bet! Eva gets dark, so be careful taking it all at once. The RoD OVA is HOT, to ENJOY!
>
> p.s. Jross I have a 8-Out Plan and am loving it..
me too, but I just found out that there's a 10-out, too

> p.s.s. Hamano u have started some serious mecha hijacking:-P
It's your fault! you planted some serious geek bait here, and somehow talk of mecha always ensues! Don't ask me to explain, I haven't seen a real mecha in my anime since Full Metal Panic (watch that, too) ended and even I was taken in!

>
> Thanks for suggestions,
Much welcome :-)
Shaky
post #75  on May 10, 2004 - 6:37 PM PDT  
> On May 10, 2004 - 5:26 PM PDT Mala wrote:
> I have seen:

> Samurai X-Trust/Betrayal (lovely)

Once you've watched Rurouni Kenshin, at least up through the fight with Shishio, you'll want to see Trust & Betrayal again. There are lots of little things in the Samurai X OVAs that you won't appreciate until you've seen some of the television show. When you go back, you'll say, "Oh, THAT's what that was all about..."

I have an off-the-wall suggestion for something I've been watching lately. Angelic Layer. It's sorta the opposite of all the mecha talk we've been having, where competitors (mostly little girls, but some boys and adults) build miniature humanoid robots called "angels" that they put into battle on a playing field called the "layer." The premise is that the angels are controlled by the minds of the players through a special visor. They run, jump, fight, fly, overheat, malfunction, etc.

This is definitely kids' stuff. The main character is a cute preteen girl who seems somehow "destined" to play the game and win. The show is made for children, and the messages that are driven home each episode reflect that: "Do your best!" "Size and strength don't matter as much as what's in your heart!" etc.

However, the show is very entertaining, well animated and has a compelling storyline that has kept my interest through five volumes so far. When you get caught up in all the adult-oriented shows like Noir and Cowboy Bebop or the myriad of series that end with Japan being half destroyed and everybody dying, it's easy to overlook a little gem like this that isn't made for the same audience but maintains the same production values and quality writing you find in more mature fare.

By the way, both the English and Japanese voice casts are excellent, depending on how you like to watch them.

The last volume is being released this month, and I'm really looking forward to it.
jross3
post #76  on May 10, 2004 - 6:49 PM PDT  
> On May 10, 2004 - 6:37 PM PDT Shaky wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> I have an off-the-wall suggestion for something I've been watching lately. Angelic Layer.

yeah, that's a great show. More proof that I love Clamp! Somehow I have yet to find a Clamp production that I dislike. Eveeyone: watch more clamp!
DBooher
post #77  on May 10, 2004 - 7:34 PM PDT  

> Ninja Scroll (TV Series)...don't tease me like that

Volume one of Ninja scroll the TV series is now available for rental at our very own greencine. Mala, I kid u not. ;)
dh22
post #78  on May 10, 2004 - 8:07 PM PDT  
> On May 10, 2004 - 5:26 PM PDT Mala wrote:
> ---------------------------------
...lots of well thought anime recommendations.
>
> ---------------------------------

You appearantly don't know this crowd very well.
Scooter
post #79  on May 10, 2004 - 8:12 PM PDT  
This one will be a mixed reaction by the gang, BUT, once you've seen a few more anime, rent

BASTARD


The key to Bastard is you have to realize right away that it is CHEEZY, and it is tongue-in-cheek about itself. It is absolutely a subtle parody.

You can not watch this if you take all anime seriously. For example, not if you just finished Cowboy Bebop. You can not view this with friends who don't know anime (they'll think you have bad taste). It is MST3K worthy. It starts out kind of slow.

I gave it 6 stars, but would have given 7 if it had a low average just to bring it up one.




JBellows
post #80  on May 10, 2004 - 8:58 PM PDT  
DBoohers and my vote is towards NGE in additon to others, I suspect. Yet, Cowboy Bebop is an excellent choice only in that it is a cautionary tale of the woes of leaving the yakuza and screwing your absolutely evil, insane and kinda doesn't care if he dies partner. And its got good music. And smart puppies. And mysterious MUSHROOMS.
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