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topic: The Manga Experience(long) |
Jestahjestiron
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post #21
on November 23, 2004 - 1:35 PM PST
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> BECK was serialized in Shounen JUMP. Yotsubato! is published in Dengeki Daioh, the same magazine that ran Azumanga Daioh. These are both WELL established Shounen comic magazines. BECK is coming out in anime form now... The fansubs are up to about Episode 6. You've been bamboozled...
Ah, I thought a Manga was shounen was because it appealed to Young men (violence, fan service,lead male hero, over sexualized cute female heroinne) I didn't know that it was based on where it was published.
About Beck, I have all the episodes and finished manga, it rules so far.
Kazaa! Fooled by the Giant Totoro Again! I shall have to summon my Domo-kun Icon to fight your Totoro-san icon! (once I figure out how to)
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hamano
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post #22
on November 23, 2004 - 2:43 PM PST
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> On November 23, 2004 - 1:35 PM PST Jestahjestiron wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Ah, I thought a Manga was shounen was because it appealed to Young men (violence, fan service,lead male hero, over sexualized cute female heroinne) I didn't know that it was based on where it was published.
Yeah, about the only way to tell for sure with some of the kawaii(cute) and "romance" titles is to check where it was published. If it was published in a Men's/Boys' manga magazine (like Yotsubato! and BECK) it's shounen, and targeted at a male audience. Even if there is no violence, even if it's primarily romance, and even if there are no robots or monsters.
So if you thought Ai Yori Aoshi, Mao-chan and Azumanga Daioh were shoujo, it's not really your fault... a lot of new fans make the same mistake. There are definite clues if you watch them closely, but it's hard to tell for sure. Some manga/anime websites can tell you where a series was originally published. Even then, with some of the magazines with names like Dengeki Daioh and Asuka it's hard to tell what the target audience was.
The commonly accepted definition is:
Shounen - Written for and published for primarily a male audience, commonly through a magazine targeted at a male audience.
Shoujo - Written for and published for primarily a male audience, commonly through a magazine targeted at a male audience.
There are a lot of crossover fans, though, like jross3. I mean, sheesh, if you look at the artwork for The Wallflower, that's definitely hardcore shoujo.
But DNAngel is definitely a shoujo title, even though it has a male protagonist.
Nowadays there is no specific "content" that would strictly define a manga as being shoujo or shounen. Vision of Escaflowne even had a shoujo AND a shounen version... the shounen version ran in Shounen Ace magazine, and the shoujo version ran in Asuka.
>
> About Beck, I have all the episodes and finished manga, it rules so far.
I've been watching the BECK fansubs and having a really hard time liking it, because the actors they cast for the characters who are supposed to speak fluent English speak English REALLY REALLY badly. And the English lines are written like they're from some 1980's computer game, with a lot of F-words thrown in to make it sound "cool".... It's awful, which is too bad because the rest of the show seems pretty likable. The manga is probably better.
> Kazaa! Fooled by the Giant Totoro Again! I shall have to summon my Domo-kun Icon to fight your Totoro-san icon! (once I figure out how to)
Look at this thread for info on custom icons.
Look at this thread for info on animated icons. |
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IronS
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post #23
on November 23, 2004 - 2:56 PM PST
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Ahem.
> On November 23, 2004 - 2:43 PM PST hamano wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> The commonly accepted definition is:
> Shounen - Written for and published for primarily a male audience, commonly through a magazine targeted at a male audience.
> Shoujo - Written for and published for primarily a female audience, commonly through a magazine targeted at a female audience.
>
Right? |
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Jestahjestiron
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post #24
on November 23, 2004 - 3:04 PM PST
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> I've been watching the BECK fansubs and having a really hard time liking it, because the actors they cast for the characters who are supposed to speak fluent English speak English REALLY REALLY badly. And the English lines are written like they're from some 1980's computer game, with a lot of F-words thrown in to make it sound "cool".... It's awful, which is too bad because the rest of the show seems pretty likable. The manga is probably better.
All your base are..are belong to us...All your base are..are belong to us!
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hamano
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post #25
on November 23, 2004 - 3:14 PM PST
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> On November 23, 2004 - 2:56 PM PST IronS wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Ahem.
>
**** embarrassing hamano mistake *****
> Right?
Ooops! That's what I deserve for showing off! |
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hamano
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post #26
on November 23, 2004 - 3:17 PM PST
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> On November 23, 2004 - 3:04 PM PST Jestahjestiron wrote:
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> > And the English lines are written like they're from some 1980's computer game, with a lot of F-words thrown in to make it sound "cool".... It's awful, which is too bad because the rest of the show seems pretty likable. The manga is probably better.
>
> All your base are..are belong to us...All your base are..are belong to us!
EXACTLY! Except it's more like, "All your FU**ING bassists are FU**ING belong to us... All your FU**ING bassists are FU**ING belong to us!" |
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jross3
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post #27
on November 23, 2004 - 4:00 PM PST
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> On November 23, 2004 - 11:00 AM PST Jestahjestiron wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> I've heard of Dark Horse but not Del Ray.
Maybe you've heard of Ballentine Books or Randomhouse then; Del Rey is something like a sub-publisher of Ballentine, and they mostly publish text-only sci-fi and/or fantasy books. Dark Horse is mostly a comics company (as I know it, at least), so it's no surprise that you know them well.
In both cases, these are well-established publishing companies that do not specifically specialize in manga; their books also happen to be the highest quality in the manga world (but, in my opinion, Del Rey's books seem to be just a notch or two higher).
Del Rey's website, however, seems to be a bit out of date:
"Del Rey Manga will launch in May 2004". Good to know they still plan on going through with that, isn't it?
I like to think that they're focusing their energies on publishing quality manga. There's at least some slightly more up-to-date info in the "newsletter". |
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hamano
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post #28
on November 23, 2004 - 5:00 PM PST
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| I found a really good shounen VS shoujo article so I posted it HERE. |
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Phiraxis
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post #29
on November 24, 2004 - 1:15 AM PST
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All your base are belong to us!
Where is that from, anyway? It's a cheat code for Empire Earth and I've also heard it from other gamers. Is it some Korean Starcraft motto or what?
btw, thanks for the links hamano! I have that hentai page bookmarked as "MS Search" hehe, thank you for introducing me to the dark side. One day, a psychiatrist will thank you as well ;) |
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Jestahjestiron
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post #30
on November 24, 2004 - 2:22 AM PST
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> On November 24, 2004 - 1:15 AM PST Phiraxis wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> All your base are belong to us!
>
> Where is that from, anyway? It's a cheat code for Empire Earth and I've also heard it from other gamers. Is it some Korean Starcraft motto or what?
>
> btw, thanks for the links hamano! I have that hentai page bookmarked as "MS Search" hehe, thank you for introducing me to the dark side. One day, a psychiatrist will thank you as well ;)
> ---------------------------------
It's from an old school Japanese game that was horribly translated. One of the villains of that game would utter "all your base are belong to us".
So old gaming dorks used it as an esoteric term in the net through forums, chat, etc. Then all of the sudden every netizen started speaking it, probably thinking it was a form of l33t speak or something.
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Jestahjestiron
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post #31
on November 24, 2004 - 2:23 AM PST
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> On November 24, 2004 - 2:22 AM PST Jestahjestiron wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > On November 24, 2004 - 1:15 AM PST Phiraxis wrote:
> > ---------------------------------
> > All your base are belong to us!
> >
> > Where is that from, anyway? It's a cheat code for Empire Earth and I've also heard it from other gamers. Is it some Korean Starcraft motto or what?
> >
> > btw, thanks for the links hamano! I have that hentai page bookmarked as "MS Search" hehe, thank you for introducing me to the dark side. One day, a psychiatrist will thank you as well ;)
> > ---------------------------------
>
> It's from an old school Japanese game that was horribly translated. One of the villains of that game would utter "all your base are belong to us".
>
> So old gaming dorks used it as an esoteric term in the net through forums, chat, etc. Then all of the sudden every netizen started speaking it, probably thinking it was a form of l33t speak or something.
>
> ---------------------------------
Oh yeah forgot, I think the name of the game was called Zero Wing.
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hamano
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oldkingcole
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post #33
on November 25, 2004 - 2:31 AM PST
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> On November 22, 2004 - 3:53 PM PST Jestahjestiron wrote:
> ---------------------------------
>
> I used to be a comic book (Marvel) fan as a kid, but as the stories continued the "monster of the week" theme with little or no continuity due to the characters "living forever" or dying multiple times (only to come back alive again each time)or use the same uninspired plotlines I gradually lost interest in comics and Superheroes in general.
I understand what you're saying, but have to point out that, of course, not all American comics are superhero comics. Manga fans might find more to like in American independent/alternative comics like Terry Moore's "Strangers in Paradise"
> I also bought this cool manga from Dark Horse called "Lone Wolf and Cub" or Kozure Okami by Kazou Koike and Goseki Kojima.
I believe "Lone Wolf and Cub" was the inspiration for the American movie Road to Perdition.
> Anyway, this is my Manga Experience, and I mean no offense to the hardcore comic fans in the forums.
My Manga experience is far more limited -- I've been concentrating on American comics for the past few years. I've only read 2 manga books. One is a book by Natsuo Sekikawa (story) and Jiroh Taniguchi (art) called "Hotel Harbour View". It mostly didn't grab me, though the very first story in the collection is memorably bleak.
And speaking of bleak, the only other manga I've read is Keiji Nakazawa's "Barefoot Gen", which was also made into an Anime film with a couple of genuinely horrifying moments. Unfortunately, when I read "Barefoot Gen", I didn't realize it was only the first volume of four. It took me a while to track down the other three volumes because it seems "Barefoot Gen" has gone out of print and been resurected by different publishers at various times. I do have the complete set now, but just haven't found the time to get to them (I'm finishing up a massive Spider-Man binge in which I started by reading the first 65 Spidey tales from his inception in 1962 onward, and then chronologically through about 20 additional collections until I was caught up to the present day. The Ultimate Spider-Man books, by the way, are really good; they might change your mind about superhero comics).
Cheers!
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Jestahjestiron
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post #34
on November 25, 2004 - 12:23 PM PST
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> On November 25, 2004 - 2:31 AM PST oldkingcole wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > On November 22, 2004 - 3:53 PM PST Jestahjestiron wrote:
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> > I used to be a comic book (Marvel) fan as a kid, but as the stories continued the "monster of the week" theme with little or no continuity due to the characters "living forever" or dying multiple times (only to come back alive again each time)or use the same uninspired plotlines I gradually lost interest in comics and Superheroes in general.
>
> I understand what you're saying, but have to point out that, of course, not all American comics are superhero comics. Manga fans might find more to like in American independent/alternative comics like Terry Moore's "Strangers in Paradise"
There was one particular comic/graphic Novel that I enjoyed (but was somewhat disturbed by). It was Johnny The Homicidal Maniac : Director's Cut by Jhonen Vasquez.
I've been meaning to try out the Sandman graphic novels by Neil Gaiman. He's become my favorite author ever since I read American Gods. Infact, I've read all of his books. |
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Jestahjestiron
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post #35
on November 25, 2004 - 8:50 PM PST
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The Wallflower: I might not have checked it out if not for a strong endorsement in Newtype magazine. I'm glad I did! The premise isn't really much for me (four young men must give a withdrawn and ghastly girl (who initially looks like Sadako from Ringu) a magical makeover... "riiiight," I said, "sounds greeeeaaat."), but once I read it I was very impressed by the characters and interactions. Very good!
I saw this at my local Bookstore the other day and I remembered the Newtype USA review on it, and your accolade of it on this board. So I bought a copy, and now I'm halfway through the manga. I'm pretty impressed with it, it has a very good story and humor.
I love the way Del Ray has translated this manga. It comes with translator notes and even has japanese honorifics (polite speech that indicates relationships and status between two people) embedded into it's translation.
Which was funny, because minutes before picking up this title I was thinking of how cool it would be if the North American manga companies would start incorporating japanese honorifics into their English adaptations.
Man, I would have really loved it if the Naruto manga would have turned out this way.
Anyway thanks for the recommendation, Jross-san!
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hamano
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post #36
on November 25, 2004 - 9:18 PM PST
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Wallflower is a pretty funny manga (not as good as School Rumble, though...)
I might like it more if Takano wasn't such a dead ringer for Entertainment Tonight reporter Cojo, who is himself like a male Joan Rivers.... Actually 3 of the 4 guys look exactly the same to me (except one has black hair instead of "blond"...) The only one who looks a little different is Toyama, because he has bigger eyes and shorter hair.... |
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jross3
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post #37
on December 2, 2004 - 7:34 PM PST
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> On November 22, 2004 - 7:38 PM PST hamano wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Oh, you're right in tune with Mao-chan (almost 9 years old) jross3!
> She recommends Pet Shop of Horrors if you haven't read it yet... a bit of naughty language in the English version, but she's doing a good job of pretending not to notice.
OK, Mr. Totoro, your daughter (clearly wise beyond her years, I'm sure...) talked me into it. My impressions of Vol. 1 are favorable; the mysterious shop reminds me of xxxholic, of course, and Mr. D is probably on his way to my List of Excessively Femenine-looking Men, dispite his short hair. Tell Mao-chan that she's convinced me to buy vol. 2, and I expect to get the others in the series as well. |
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RWaller
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post #38
on December 4, 2004 - 1:01 PM PST
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> > On November 23, 2004 - 11:00 AM PST Jestahjestiron wrote:
> > ---------------------------------
> > I've heard of Dark Horse but not Del Ray.
It's Del Rey, after the famous SF author and editor Lester Del Rey. He founded Del Rey Books in the 1970s to provide an old-fashioned space-opera alternative to all the new-wave (e.g. Michael Moorcock) SF books that were coming out then. Del Rey has since become a joke term for retro SF. |
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jross3
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post #39
on December 4, 2004 - 1:56 PM PST
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> On December 4, 2004 - 1:01 PM PST RWaller wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > > On November 23, 2004 - 11:00 AM PST Jestahjestiron wrote:
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > I've heard of Dark Horse but not Del Ray.
>
> It's Del Rey, after the famous SF author and editor Lester Del Rey. He founded Del Rey Books in the 1970s to provide an old-fashioned space-opera alternative to all the new-wave (e.g. Michael Moorcock) SF books that were coming out then. Del Rey has since become a joke term for retro SF.
> ---------------------------------
(his name is Moorcock? that has to be a penname...)
Thanks for the extra info. So now they're publishing manga! what happened? The Wallflower isn't exactly a space-opera, even by the most flexible definition. Gundam, maybe, but that was just one of their launch titles, and the stuff they've added (like Othello and The Wallflower) certainly don't adhere to that founding philosophy. I hope that is is a part of a big branching-out that's been going on for a long time and will continue at least until I die or am too poor to buy manga (or until I learn Japanese really well and can read the originals without any translations or cultural notes). I'm trying to think of Del Rey books I've read before, but I haven't had any luck with my memory. it's probably not important anyway. All that matters for now is that they keep lisencing good manga and keep selling it in those quality books with the good paper binding and the really good translations and cultural notes! |
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llibby
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post #40
on December 5, 2004 - 11:07 PM PST
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> On November 25, 2004 - 2:31 AM PST oldkingcole wrote:
> ---------------------------------
>
> I believe "Lone Wolf and Cub" was the inspiration for the American movie Road to Perdition.
i believe you mean this.
was inspired by lone wolf and cub and was later made into a tom hanks film
> I understand what you're saying, but have to point out that, of course, not all American comics are superhero comics. Manga fans might find more to like in American independent/alternative comics like Terry Moore's "Strangers in Paradise"
i completely concur. there are lots of american comics out there that aren't super hero based. additionally quite a few are really good. i didn't really get into comics in general till after i had started reading manga (with the exception of jhonen vasquez stuff). and reading independent/alternative american comics in turn gave me a taste for for more alternative manga (suehiro maruo, taiyo matsumoto, hideshi hino to name a few). most recently though i have taken an interest in herge.
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