GREEN CINE Already a member? login
 Your cart
Help
Advanced Search
- Genres
+ Action
+ Adult
+ Adventure
+ Animation
+ Anime
+ Classics
+ Comedies
+ Comic Books
+ Crime
  Criterion Collection
+ Cult
+ Documentary
+ Drama
+ Erotica
+ Espionage
  Experimental/Avant-Garde
+ Fantasy
+ Film Noir
+ Foreign
+ Gay & Lesbian
  HD (High Def)
+ Horror
+ Independent
+ Kids
+ Martial Arts
+ Music
+ Musicals
  Pre-Code
+ Quest
+ Science Fiction
  Serials
+ Silent
+ Sports
+ Suspense/Thriller
  Sword & Sandal
+ Television
+ War
+ Westerns


Public Discussions

topics
GreenCine General
Feedback
Have suggestions, criticism or praise for the GreenCine community? Post them here. Please maintain a sense of decorum here.
1063

Recommendation(s) feature!
Topic by: fdguarino
Posted: June 14, 2004 - 10:48 AM PDT
Last Reply: June 28, 2004 - 6:55 PM PDT

page  1  2  3  4  5      prev | next
author topic: Recommendation(s) feature!
angelina
post #61  on June 16, 2004 - 12:09 PM PDT  
if you find that the recommendations are no longer displaying on the home page, it means that we've run out of movies to suggest based on our filtering criteria (ratings, past rentals, red vines vs. twizzlers, etc.). in some cases, rating 10 or so more movies will get the engine to dig a bit deeper and ratings will be displayed again.

click here to get to the improve recommendations page and go through the lists of movies that you've watched, rated or assigned to the "not interested" category.

we're still working out some kinks in this feature, hopefully we can make sure that this doesn't keep happening. in the meantime, just keep watching films and rating them when you're done. that should keep things interesting, hopefully.
dpowers
post #62  on June 16, 2004 - 12:13 PM PDT  
ah 'kay not sure how i missed apathos's post in the first place. obviously official cuz the icon's nothing but halo.

maybe "not interested" could say something more specific like "don't recommend this title again." it really seemed to be like, "i hate that kind of movie."
hamano
post #63  on June 16, 2004 - 1:07 PM PDT  
> On June 16, 2004 - 8:06 AM PDT dh22 wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> That's not necessarily true. Each volume is its own. Every series I watch I give individual ratings for each discs, because some are better than others.
> ---------------------------------

You're absolutely right that some volumes are better than others, but that's a function of how many good episodes are bundled on particular volumes (really we're saying that some episodes are better than others, and that Vol. 1 has more or less good episodes on it than Vol. 2 does, right?) Since I can't rate individual episodes, my outlook on this is to recommend series to people and not Volumes. I mean, I don't say "Heat Guy J" is a good series so you should watch it but you should skip Vol. 3 because it's relatively boring".

So, like you, my ratings on a series could vary from volume to volume by 1 or 2 ice cubes, but as far as being someone recommending a title to someone else, which is what we're doing in this new GC feature, I'd have to say it would be better if, like the defunct anime recommendation AI I used to use, a series was handled as one title.

Since a lot of TV series as well as anime are multi-volume DVD releases, I think this is a factor worth considering.

Obviously I'm NOT talking about movies (like the Lord of the Rings series or the Nightmare on Elm Street series) here.
Cinenaut
post #64  on June 16, 2004 - 1:16 PM PDT  
> On June 16, 2004 - 12:09 PM PDT angelina wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> if you find that the recommendations are no longer displaying on the home page, it means that we've run out of movies to suggest based on our filtering criteria (ratings, past rentals, red vines vs. twizzlers, etc.). in some cases, rating 10 or so more movies will get the engine to dig a bit deeper and ratings will be displayed again.
> ---------------------------------

Red Vines forever!

dh22
post #65  on June 16, 2004 - 1:43 PM PDT  
> On June 16, 2004 - 1:16 PM PDT Cinenaut wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Red Vines forever!
>
>
> ---------------------------------

Oh, I so can't wait for the day of the treats war. You red vines people are going down!
Cinenaut
post #66  on June 16, 2004 - 2:00 PM PDT  
Oh yeah, well our allies the Jujube fanatics will pull the fillings right out your head, pal!
dh22
post #67  on June 16, 2004 - 2:05 PM PDT  
Ha! They will never get passed the might of our compatriot ...dah dah dah... The Jolly Rancher
hamano
post #68  on June 16, 2004 - 2:25 PM PDT  
Getting back on topic, it occurs to me that THIS feature would actually benefit from having it available to non-GreenCine members, no? My ratings are compiling an "ideal hamano" which is then compared to a "virtual hamano" which is a composite of other members who have similar tastes based on the number of title matches with high ratings. Then the AI recommends titles that I haven't seen that the "virtual hamano" has rated highly.

"Ideal hamano" - composed of titles that I have seen and rated high.

"Virtual hamano" - a composite of other GreenCine members who have similar tastes based on high ratings on matched titles.

"recommendations" - All the highly rated titles seen by the "Virtual hamano" minus the ones already actually seen by the "Ideal hamano".

That's a simplification, but if that is the model, then the "virtual hamano" generated by the AI would be better if MORE users have used the system.

Maybe GreenCine could have one internal "members only" database, plus an external user database attached to the public front page or the GC Daily. That way maybe GC members can get recommendations based on 1) the GC member internal database OR 2) the external 'net at large database OR 3) a combination of the two databases.
artifex
post #69  on June 16, 2004 - 4:17 PM PDT  
> Getting back on topic, it occurs to me that THIS feature would actually benefit from having it available to non-GreenCine members, no?

This would be vulnerable to non-members deciding to screw up the results by feeding it a lot of false ratings.
sinisterguffaw
post #70  on June 16, 2004 - 4:36 PM PDT  
Hey Jross3, have your recommendations shown up again yet? Mine eventually came back. But it was touch and go for a little while there...
jross3
post #71  on June 16, 2004 - 5:48 PM PDT  
> On June 16, 2004 - 4:36 PM PDT sinisterguffaw wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> Hey Jross3, have your recommendations shown up again yet? Mine eventually came back. But it was touch and go for a little while there...
> ---------------------------------

Yeah, they show up at home now, but it was the computer at work that I lost it, so I'll have to see.
kamapuaa
post #72  on June 16, 2004 - 6:37 PM PDT  
> Maybe GreenCine could have one internal "members only" database, plus an external user database attached to the

I doubt Greencine recommendations use such a method. Because it would have to very complex - just because you agree with another user about a single movie, doesn't at all mean you're going to agree with all his movie choices. So, you'd want this other user to have a number of movies you've had the same general opinion about, and you'd want to run the comparison against several different users, who all tend to give similar ratings, and all gave high ratings to a movie you haven't seen.

More likely, somebody manually put in the most popular of specific genres. If you like several of the genre, it lists you more of these popular films.
hamano
post #73  on June 16, 2004 - 7:10 PM PDT  
> On June 16, 2004 - 6:37 PM PDT kamapuaa wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> More likely, somebody manually put in the most popular of specific genres. If you like several of the genre, it lists you more of these popular films.
> ---------------------------------

Nah, that wasn't how the defunct anime recommendation AI worked, and I think the GC one works like that one did. If what underdog and the other staffers say is true, it's not even genre related. It just crunches numbers comparing your ratings profile to the ratings profiles of others. It's a step up from the Amazon system that shows, "other people who bought this DVD also bought these" because it's based not on purchase, but your opinion of the film AFTER watching it.

When I did a story on the MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab about 10 years ago, there were scientists working on "intelligent agents" that used past experience to come up with guesses on future preference.

I think the GC recommendation engine does something like this: it looks at your profile based on which films you liked, and which film you disliked. Then it compares you to hundreds of other users who also liked the same films, AND disliked the same films. The "profiles" of people who have more matches with your profile get weighed more than people who disagreed with you on films.

Then the AI looks at the lists of these hundreds of members (or thousands of members) and subtracts the films you've rated (seen already). Arranged in order of high score (the film shows up on the most lists that are similar to yours but NOT on yours) this is the list of recommendations the AI makes to you.

So let's say I gave ratings of 10 to 4 films, Amelie, Unforgiven, The Piano, and The Matrix. The AI would look for other people who also gave 10s to ALL 4 of those. If it doesn't find any, it'll look for people who gave 10s or 9s to ALL 4 of those, etc. etc.

So let's say for argument the AI finds 12 people who also gave 10 ratings to those films. Then the AI would look at other titles given 10 scores by those people. Any titles it finds that I've seen (rated) are taken out.

So let's say 8 out of those 12 members who also liked Amelie, Unforgiven, The Piano, and The Matrix also gave a rating of 10 to Galaxy Quest. Then the AI would put that #1 on my list of GC recommendations. And if 7 of the 12 gave a 10 rating to Much Ado About Nothing, and 1 of the 12 gave a 9 rating for the same film, then Much Ado will be the second film on my recommendations list.

Of course my example is waaay too simplified, but basically I think that's how the AI works... I don't think it's related to film genre at all, except for any genre bias that shows up in the list of films that you've actually rated.
kamapuaa
post #74  on June 16, 2004 - 9:20 PM PDT  
Who knows? But, I have my doubts that the algorithm is anything so sophisticated.

That's because the movies I'm recommended are basically unrelated to the movies I myself rent or rate (I rate all the movies I rent) - mostly I'm getting recommended anime & mainstream Hollywood movies, of which I've rented only a couple apiece. Not only that, these recommendations are so off-base, I have a hard time believing people who like the Chinese & Bollywood films I like, would also like such movies.

I hear other people talking about the movies they've been recommended (Repo Man, Evangelion, some others), and I've been recommended these same movies.
hamano
post #75  on June 16, 2004 - 10:50 PM PDT  
> On June 16, 2004 - 9:20 PM PDT kamapuaa wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> That's because the movies I'm recommended are basically unrelated to the movies I myself rent or rate (I rate all the movies I rent) - mostly I'm getting recommended anime & mainstream Hollywood movies, of which I've rented only a couple apiece.
> ---------------------------------

That's exactly why I think this is a genre-free AI at work. The program is obviously removing titles that you've rented/rated in the past. It's also removing titles that are in your queue (the films that you'd think would be good recommendations based on your past viewing habits is most likely to be found there already!) THEN it's comparing you to other people who best liked the films that you liked, THEN it takes their top rated films that you haven't seen yet, and recommends them to you.

Well, with my feelings about the GC membership at large, and the early stage we're in with this recommendations AI, what you're saying is EXACTLY what I would expect the recommendations to look like. There are a lot of people here who are primarily here for anime. There are a lot of members who don't even participate on these boards at all who are getting mostly mainstream art films and films like Bend it Like Beckham or The English Patient, etc. A lot of those are still pretty high quality films, so they're probably pretty highly rated by the membership at large.

The AI is looking at the overlap between YOUR preferences and the preferences of those anime fans and mainstream fans. Then it's coming up with titles that THEY've liked that you haven't seen that aren't on your queue yet.

I think it's gonna take a couple of months of steady work rating films... the program needs to refine its understanding of your quirks and preferences, as well as compile more databases of other viewer's preferences.

Right now, the first page of recommendations for me are showing mostly things that I've already seen. 90% of those are titles that I liked. And the numbers 2 and 3 recommendation are Pi and The Royal Tennenbaums, two artsy mainstream films that I think I'd like based on reviews (they're not on my queue because I can just as easily get them from Blockbusters). So I'd say the AI is working pretty well for me. I just have to work harder to eliminate titles that I've seen already, or I'm planning to rent locally.

> More likely, somebody manually put in the most popular of specific genres. If you like several of the genre, it lists you more of these popular films.

But you see, that's not true for you. You said you're getting recommendations that "are basically unrelated to the movies I myself rent or rate"... I think the AI is worth it if it can recommend films that I would like that I wouldn't have thought to put on my queue. The AI really wouldn't be any good if it only made recommendations that you would expect from it. The real gems will be titles that you've never heard of, or titles that you misunderstood to be something you wouldn't like (but secretly it's right up your alley.)

When the defunct anime recommendations AI put Azumanga Daioh and Fruits Basket on my top 5 recommended list, I didn't even know what those two titles WERE. At the time they were both being fansubbed and I had no way of downloading the fansubs. I had to google those titles to see if they'd be something I'd be interested in. But the AI somehow KNEW from ratings I had given to other anime titles. Now I own all of Fruits Basket and the first two volumes of Azumanga Daioh. So I've got a lot of faith in this kind of AI program. It's worked for me before.
kamapuaa
post #76  on June 17, 2004 - 12:04 AM PDT  
> who are primarily here for anime. There are a lot of members who don't even participate on these boards at all who are getting mostly mainstream art films and films like Bend it Like Beckham or The English Patient, etc. A lot of

But my recommendations aren't like that - they're Blair Witch Project, Lord of the Rings, Evangelion, etc. Kind of stupid stuff to my mind, with no relation to what I rate on Greencine, I'd imagine not even a 2nd-degree relation.

> I think the AI is worth it if it can recommend films that I would like that I wouldn't have thought to put on my queue.

True, but people tend to rent within certain genres & especially nationalities. Getting recommended only movies outside these genres & nationalities isn't of much use. That's particularly true when the recommendations are well-known movies, as most of the recs are (which would follow from your explanation). Obviously I've already heard of the movie Lord of the Rings, and if I wanted it in my queue I would have put it there already. And I'm not about to rate every well-known movie, so that I start getting less main-stream recs! (After I gave LOTR a poor rating, it recommended me the Bonus disk instead)

In conclusion, I've logged onto Greencine's message boards entirely too many times this evening. I hope I don't sound up-in-arms about how I hate these recs, it's just a way to kill time on the computer...
JBellows
post #77  on June 17, 2004 - 6:43 AM PDT  
So true, I waste many a time here on GC. Look at the time!

kamapuaa has a great point. While right now about half my queue is anime, it wasnt always like that. I just happen to hit 'rent all' when I come across a comrade's list and I also rent entire series. So I also rent a lot of Asian and independent films. The rec list does not reflect this interest as much. So to say that the rec list is a snap shot of 'my' taste would be untrue.

As for the editors list, its also pretty touch and go: specifically, its looks like (not saying that it truly IS) it is slanted to the obscure. Which is fine but its also not an accurate reflection of my tastes since I only occaisionally (sp) rent obscure films.

Support the independent and obscure artist: rent Kung Pow

--JellyB


> On June 17, 2004 - 12:04 AM PDT kamapuaa wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> > who are primarily here for anime. There are a lot of members who don't even participate on these boards at all who are getting mostly mainstream art films and films like Bend it Like Beckham or The English Patient, etc. A lot of
>
>--annotated
dh22
post #78  on June 17, 2004 - 7:59 AM PDT  
There seems to be a minor bug. When I go to the "Rate movies you've selected as 'Not Interested'" and then go to page two, I get taken to the second page of the "Rate movies from your rental history" area. It happens on every page but page one, not just page two. This happen to anyone else?
angelina
post #79  on June 17, 2004 - 2:47 PM PDT  
> On June 17, 2004 - 7:59 AM PDT dh22 wrote:
> ---------------------------------
> There seems to be a minor bug. When I go to the "Rate movies you've selected as 'Not Interested'" and then go to page two, I get taken to the second page of the "Rate movies from your rental history" area. It happens on every page but page one, not just page two. This happen to anyone else?
> ---------------------------------

hi blue doggie. when you get a chance, give that click another try. you should be good to go.
dh22
post #80  on June 17, 2004 - 7:21 PM PDT  
angelina to the rescue!

psst. you've always been my favorite green halo.
page  1  2  3  4  5      prev | next

about greencine · donations · refer a friend · support · help · genres
contact us · press room · privacy policy · terms · sitemap · affiliates · advertise

Copyright © 2005 GreenCine LLC. All rights reserved.
© 2006 All Media Guide, LLC. Portions of content provided by All Movie Guide®, a trademark of All Media Guide, LLC.